Is filler needed with these ultralight 45-70 loads?
I'm mostly wondering about 10 grains Unique and a 405 grainer.
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

I have used fillers before in the 45-70. I like IMR 4227 better than unique though. My "filler" consisted of about half a cotton ball seated on top of ten grains of unique and it did seem to make the load more consistant. I started using 31.0 grains of 4227 for all loads in my 45-70 for bullets up to 405 grains cast or otherwise, got fine accuracy using magnum primers and no fillers.

Cotton balls it is I guess.

As said above, with reduced loads use a Magnum primer to ignite all the powder in the case no matter where it is in the case. Good hunting. "D"

I've used some dacron filler in lead bullet 45/70 loads for my Guide Gun. Fillers seem to increase both average velocity and extreme spread. If you haven't purchased your powder yet you could try Trail Boss which would give you calm velocities without the need for fillers or running the risk of double charges http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp While you're placing your order if you plan to do much work with lead bullets and light loads you'll do well to acquire a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet loading manual too.

Take a look at IMR Trail Boss. I've always used Unique and a filler, but just this weekend bought the Trail Boss. The book says 12 grains gives 971 fps. 12 grains half fills a 45-70 case.

Haven't shot it yet.

quote:

Originally posted by RobinB:
Just this weekend bought the Trail Boss. 12 grains half fills a 45-70 case.

Trail Boss seems like an interesting powder for Trapdoor speeds. Are you running 405s too? I'd like to build some pistol power loads for my Guide Gun. Some days all a fella needs is a 300 gr .458 @ 1200 fps.

Tyler,
You need to research the use of fillers some before you just jump in and use them. Some folks have managed to ring the chambers of their 45-70 with such loads I think because they may have used too much filler. I have shot a lot of Unique loads with no ringed chamber but I have always been extra careful and use mostly 300 grain cast bullets with it. I have never used a filler.

I have also read a report of 45-70 chambers ringed with fast burning powders and no mention of fillers. It was over at BPCR.NET.

So 10 grains Unique, magnum primer, and no filler?

The data on the GMDR website says they used CCI 200 primers, no mention of filler, or problems with all the light loads they created.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
Tyler,
You need to research the use of fillers some before you just jump in and use them. Some folks have managed to ring the chambers ...

Completely agree.

Back 35-50 years ago, there was a good bit of Filler Discussion in the NRA, American Hunter because of Ringed Chambers. That was back when Kapok was used as a Filler.

With the advent of Powders specifically designed for use in Reduced Loads, which have been tested by the Powder and Bullet manufacturers, eliminates the possibility of a Ringed Chamber incident. A person may never have it happen to them when using Fillers, but it is something I completely avoid.

The recommendations by Nordrseta, to use a Powder which totally prevents the chance of a Double Charge and to get a Lyman Manual, are exactly what a Beginner needs to do.

Best of luck to you.

I emailed the makers of Unique, because they had the exact load I was thinking about online and they said cotton balls would be fine as a filler. I shot 8 loads today at some water filled jugs, and everything shot high, but fairly accurate as far as I could tell offhand. Does barrel vibration affect POA on a tube magazine gun as much as something where the barrel is free floating? I have no clue why a 405 grain bullet went about a foot high when the sights are set for a 300 grainer about 1800 fps.

Think about bullet weight,speed and arc.

I was assuming it would still be low. 300 grain at 1800 fps vs 405 at 1000 shouldn't be much different at 50 yards? I'll shoot some off a bench sometime and find out more.

Tyler,

I am not trying to start an argument with any of the gentlemen above...

Just in all of my reduce loading experiences so far, I go out of my way to use powders that you do not need a filler in... fillers can increase pressures....and fillers can vary too much...

so I stick with powders that don't require fillers and are not position sensitive in the case...

I also strongly disagree with the use of magnum primers to make sure that the light charges ignite...

I use large pistol primers even with cases like the 444 and the 338 Win Mag when using reduced loads... I will use large rifle primers also... but I don't recommend using magnum primers...

that was the result of a conversation I once had the opportunity to have with an engineer at Speer... he even recommended that a large rifle primer was good enough to ignite loads in the 338 Win Mag and in the 338 Lapua, a round he personally shot...

I followed his advise and some testing over the chronograph for consistency bared out what he had told me...

I know you are a young man, but you really need to get someone to take you under their wing where you live to teach you about this...

I also advise you purchase some cast bullet manuals.. Lyman # 3 is pretty useful...

Used load manuals are really cheap when you can find them.. I bet Ebay or ( the big book vendor on line's name is slipping my memory right now) but they would also have them available, both new and used...

I have bought used manuals for $3.00 to $5.00...

Reduced loads can get you hurt if you don't know what you are doing.. just like non reduced loads can... however what you learn in reduced loading doesn't apply to what you learn in full power loads, and vice versa...