Oooops! As I wrote, I am new on this forum, perhaps I am better off asking here...
Shorter this time:-I would like to load my .308 down to about 2100 fps with a 150 gr bullet. Is this possible, using any of IMR 3031, 4064 or 4895? If so, I am also grateful for data.
Thanks!

I have to add that I do not want to use filler...

Capercallie, that's a big forest grouse, right?

The best place to go is to the Hodgdon powder site (http://hodgdon.com/), and look at their youth loads. They have several H4895 loads for the 308 that would probably meet your criteria.

HTH, Dutch.

Thank you, Dutch!
The thing is, can I just use the data for H4895 for my IMR-powder, or can I just use as a reference? I am not familiar in how it works, even though I´ve seen that the burnrates of the two are similar...

And, yes it is a big forest-grouse. They can weigh up to 5,5-6,0 kilos.

Just out of interest, why would you want to shoot capercaille?

Have you ever tasted one?

If we are talking about the same bird, I must say that your question is pretty odd...
I myself think they are delicious, but the hunt for them (with good dogs..) is among the greatest! Beats moosehunts every day, since you can carry the game by yourself!!!
But then, everyone doesnt like the taste of them...

Normally, one would not interchange data, but in this case, when you are so far from the "red-line" that I really can't see where the problem is. They are both single based powders with virtually identical characteristics.

The main concern with "light loads" is the risk of "secondary explosion". The cause is not well understood (at least by me.......!), but Hodgdon feels that it is not a concern with a powder of the rate of H4895. Plus, the loads are still bulky enough that a double charge is not possible -- another potential for a "kaboom" with light loads.

Sounds like a Capercallie is about a small turkey. 5.5 Kg is more than twice as heavy as our largest grouse, the Sage Grouse: must be a BIG bird. There are several states here that allow turkey hunting with rifles. Sounds like a good way to spend a Fall afternoon. HTH, Dutch.

If you want to be quaint and use a .308 Win, a heavy bullet subsonic load would be suitable.

If you want to be a gentleman, rather use a 5,2x34 Kronprinz - *the* classical Austro-Hungarian capercailli cartridge.

Carcano

Hello carcano!
From where in the old Europe are you from? Ive heard some rumours about the interest of coming to my playground, hunting for the "great capers". I can easily understand people who are interested, but dont you have them in mid-Europe too?
My location is in the north of Sweden.

quote:

Originally posted by asti:
Oooops! As I wrote, I am new on this forum, perhaps I am better off asking here...
Shorter this time:-I would like to load my .308 down to about 2100 fps with a 150 gr bullet. Is this possible, using any of IMR 3031, 4064 or 4895? If so, I am also grateful for data.
Thanks!

It is certainly possible. For example, the Speer manual has a 150-grain reduced load using 25 grains of SR4759 for 1925 FPS or 21 grains of that same powder giving 1632 FPS. Be advised that at 2100 FPS with a 150-grain bullet, you will still need to make head or neck shots on Auerhahn (or turkeys!!) to have enough meat to eat!

A very good load for such shooting is a hard-cast bullet at 1300-1400 FPS, which will cause a lot less damage, yet still kill well on such critters! 23 grains of IMR 3031 with a 150-grain cast bullet will give you about 1400 FPS in a .308.

If you choose to use IMR 3031, 33.5 grains will give you close to 2100 FPS in a .308 with 150-grain bullets, and 35.5 grains of IMR 4895 will do about the same. (Do not be surprised at the partially-burned powder grains left in the bore when you shoot these reduced loads!

Hi, El Deguello.
If I try 23 gr of 3031, doesnt I have to use filler?
I can imagine that there will be alot of air in that cartridge.
Thanks for the tip, even if it does require filler!

Asti,
What is the problem with a filler, it makes for accuracy and keeps the powder positioned constantly...Just curious who you been talking to.

I guess it´s because I´m lazy + the fact that I´ve never used it before, therefore I am uncertain of HOW to use it.
I managed to get a hold on some Blue dot today, now I´m just eager to get the package and start!
Thank you all for every reply, it´s always fun with new tips´
and new fellow hunters/reloaders/shooters!
Hope I myself can help someone, sometime.

Asti,

You should be pleased with the blue dot. I'd heard these wonderful claims of how accurate it was, and mild shooting, and then I had to get some and find out for myself that it is true. As I mentioned in the thread, 18.5 gr seems to be a magic charge, accurate with 110 and 125 gr bullets, and very accurate with 165's.

quote:

Originally posted by asti:
Hi, El Deguello.
If I try 23 gr of 3031, doesnt I have to use filler?
I can imagine that there will be alot of air in that cartridge.
Thanks for the tip, even if it does require filler!

I have not used a filler with these loads, but it seems to me that it would help keep the powder back against the flash hole! This should improve ignition uniformity. (What I do is point the muzzle up at a pretty steep angle to let the powder settle in the rear of the case, then slowly lower the muzzle to take aim. Filler would probably be better, but you may have to experiment with the amount of filler and the powder charge to get a balanced loading density....)

WOW!!!
I just fired a cartridge containing 19 grs of Blue dot, 147 grs bullet in Normabrass, with a CCI 250 Magprimer.
There was NO recoil, if there was, it was more like a .222!
No gasleakage backwards, and above all: the bang wont hurt my dogs hearing.
From here on, accuracy will be sought, and I shall find!!!
Thank you for guiding me in this other dimension of reloading, I am very grateful!!!

Report from shootingrange:
20 grs of BD, 147 grs bullet.
4 rounds at 60 metres spread 30 mm.
20,5 grs of BD, same bullet spread 13 mm. Same distance and 4 rounds.
I think I am pretty close to the optimum load. At least it covers my needs.
The only bad thing is that it takes a lot of time weighing the powder, otherwise I´m satisfied.
Cheers!

I weigh all of my rifle loads. I use a powder charger to get close then trickle the powder into the scale to get perfection. This way it cuts down on one more chance for inaccuracy. I know the bench rest shooters don't weigh every powder charge but that is my method and it works well for me.

If you can post a picture of a Capercallie I would love to see it.

quote:

Originally posted by Swede44mag:
If you can post a picture of a Capercallie I would love to see it.

Here you are. Tetrao urogallus:



Carcano

I most certainly will try this coming fall.
If I could use a scanner, you could get one today. However Im NOT a computerwiz...
I could ask someone for help, perhaps my wife, cause I have pictures of the two real big ones I´ve shot+ some smaller ones.
My two biggest weighed 5,6 and 5,5 kilos.
The 5,5 was the first I shot for my dog, after a good job from her. Probably the best huntingday of my life, Which you will be able to tell from the pic´s!!!

Carcano beat me to it!
Arent they beautiful? Will try to post some later on anyway.

Thanks for the picture that is one outstanding bird makes my mouth water looking at it.

Where do you hunt these fascinating birds?