I didn’t want to Highjack DLH 4570’s post


I see many of you use the Chrony. I have one but have not been able to get much use out of it. I think mine is like 12 years old. My problem is that I do most of my shooting in the winter due to lay-off.

What I am wondering is how many of you use your Chrony in cold weather? I basically gave up on mine when the temperature closes in on 20 degrees. Just curious if it is just mine or if all of them want to stay indoors in the winter.

WS

I read your question and did not know the answer off the top of my head. I too usually have free time in the winter and do a lot of load developemnt then. I went and thumbed through pages of data rather quickly and found many with temp noted in single digits, and probably hundreds below 20 deg F, but I didn't find any with below zero temps, but that doesn't mean there are not a few(seems like there should be) So I would guess you have something wrong with your chrony, heck I would contact them and ask. .02 Scot

Might be a good idea. When I did use it in the cold it either gave very erratic readouts or nothing at all. That's why I gave up on it and vowed to shoot in the spring when it warmed up. I have been vowing to do that now for over 35 years. Just never enough time in the warm months.

WS

I usually avoid shooting when the temp is below -15 C. However, it is not because the Chrony gives erratic results, but because my solvents freeze.

Could it be that the problem is the battery not operating properly at that temperature? Why not kep the battery warm somehow eg. in your pocket until ready to use?
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Could it be that the problem is the battery not operating properly at that temperature? Why not kep the battery warm somehow eg. in your pocket until ready to use?
Peter.

Very good point. Low temps will quickly disable an Alkaline battery.

Why not ask the maker?

http://www.shootingchrony.com/address.htm


I see questions like this all the time and am not singling out this one person. However, it does seem that a lot of people do not realize that most shooting related manufacturers do have real customer service folks in their employ and techs who are quite happy to answer these kinds of questions. Going to the source will always be the best way to go, instead of guesses and opinions and just plain bad info that sometimes comes up on forums. Also, the makers would like to know about any problems that crop up with their equipment.

Here's my 2 cents, I used my Chrony yesterday, temp started out about 8 degrees F with a 30mph wind which makes the wind chill pretty cold and it worked perfectly, this is not the coldest temp I've used it in. There were some days about -10 F and it performed on those days also. I have my Chrony about 15 years and it works for me. That's not to say there might be better instuments out there, but I see no reason to spend more money on something else when the Chrony works fine for me.

quote:

Originally posted by PETEM:
...I used my Chrony yesterday, temp started out about 8 degrees F with a 30mph wind which makes the wind chill pretty cold and it worked perfectly...

Wind chill only affects exposed skin. Inanimate objects like chronographs and radiators do not suffer from wind chill.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
...Wind chill only affects exposed skin. Inanimate objects like chronographs and radiators do not suffer from wind chill.

Hey Dave, Would you care to educate us about why Ballistic Labs are Environmentally Controlled? To keep their lunches from spoiling?

I am probably about to be told I am dead wrong by 30 or more forum members, but here goes......I'm wearing my Nomex today anyway.



It seems to me that wind chill affects anything, in pretty much the same way.

Wind chill is not a temperature at all, but a way of describing the rate at which something cools to the ambient temperature. For example:

If it is -10 F out and no wind,, it will take a human body, or a machine or a potted tree a certain length of time each to cool to the ambient temp if moved outside.

If the wind is blowing, the speed of cooling to the ambient temp will increase for each. The rates will be different depending on density of the objects, whether part of the heat loss is being replaced, and so on, but it WILL increase for each. Enough wind, for instance will cause each item to cool as if the air were still and the ambient temp was -50 F. That is a "-50 Wind Chill". It means that things are cooling at the same rate they would if the temp was -50, with no wind.

One reason that happens is that the air in direct contact with an object is a natural insulator. So long as it does not move away from the object, it takes a suprisingly long period of time for it to conduct heat away from anything.

But, if the air in immediate contact is moved away, the heat is has absorbed is removed with it. The new air now against the cooling object, if cooler than the object, will in turn start absorbing heat from the cooling object.

So wind increases the rate of cooling by moving the warmed air off the body and replacing it with cold air. That happens whether the body is a human one or a metal robot.

I have a pact and I have used mine in the cold with no problems. I might use it tomorrow if I'm lucky!

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Dave, Would you care to educate us about why Ballistic Labs are Environmentally Controlled? To keep their lunches from spoiling?

As good an answer as any, HotCore.

Can wind chill impact my car's radiator or exposed water pipe?

A. The only effect wind chill has on inanimate objects, such as car radiators and water pipes, is to more quickly cool the object to cool to the current air temperature. Object will NOT cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind chill temperature is -31 degrees Fahrenheit, then your car's radiator will not drop lower than -5 degrees F.

In other words, if the ambient air temp is 35 degrees F (not freezing) and the wind is blowing X amount of mph to yield a wind chill of -50 degrees F, the wind chill effect will not cause the H2O in your birdbath to freeze.

It really is that simple, so don't shoot the messenger.

Hey Dave, Nice post.

Do you believe "cold" affects:
1. A radio.
2. A chronograph.
3. A Strain Gauge.

quote:

Originally posted by Whopper Stopper:
I didn’t want to Highjack DLH 4570’s post


I see many of you use the Chrony. I have one but have not been able to get much use out of it. I think mine is like 12 years old. My problem is that I do most of my shooting in the winter due to lay-off.

What I am wondering is how many of you use your Chrony in cold weather? I basically gave up on mine when the temperature closes in on 20 degrees. Just curious if it is just mine or if all of them want to stay indoors in the winter.

WS

WS,

Just a thought - What powder are you using?

You know some powders are more temperature sensitive than others. I've used my Chrony in weather down to 20F (but not below like u) and can see some drop in velocity summer to winter.

quote:

Originally posted by amamnn:
Why not ask the maker?

http://www.shootingchrony.com/address.htm


I see questions like this all the time and am not singling out this one person. However, it does seem that a lot of people do not realize that most shooting related manufacturers do have real customer service folks in their employ and techs who are quite happy to answer these kinds of questions. Going to the source will always be the best way to go, instead of guesses and opinions and just plain bad info that sometimes comes up on forums. Also, the makers would like to know about any problems that crop up with their equipment.

Did anybody get a response from chrony?

I'm trying to work up a load this winter too and the only day I can shoot for a while is this wednesday, it might not get above 10 F.

I think I had results in the cold that didn't match my last summer test because I was shooting at more targets left to right, changing the angle and location the bullets went thru the chrony. I also didn't put the plastic thingeys on the top because it was overcast, but I think I'll put them on everytime for consistency.

It could be as simple as a poor electrical connection. I have troubleshot many electrical discrepancies in aircraft that were temperature related. If the connections are cut a bit short the wire will shrink/contract in the cold. This can result in an interrupted or corrupted signal. Also as previously stated it could be the battery you are using is not performing in the cold.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey Dave, Nice post.

Do you believe "cold" affects:
1. A radio.
2. A chronograph.
3. A Strain Gauge.

Cold does effect them all. However at most temperatures ranges where they are used the effect is minimal and has little effect on their performance. Any measureable effect is usuall with in the standard variation anyway. Most shooters who use chronographs and strain gauges use them between 40 and 80 degrees as that is the "comfort" range for most shooters. Also most of the equipment is in the shade of covered firing points on ranges.

I don't know of too many shooters who use such equipment below or above those temperature ranges. The chronographs and strain gauges are all tested for their accuracy in extreme conditions and there is little functional impairment.

"Hey Dave, Would you care to educate us about why Ballistic Labs are Environmentally Controlled? To keep their lunches from spoiling?"

Simply because changes of temperature has a decided effect on the burning rates of powders (older powders that is until "Extreme" technology came along). They not only keep the temperature of the lab consistant but also the temperature of the componants (powder in particular). The reason is to give consistent results.

Nice red herrings. Sorry but no cigar!

Larry Gibson

quote:

"Hey Dave, Would you care to educate us about why Ballistic Labs are Environmentally Controlled? To keep their lunches from spoiling?"

I just hate spoiled doughnuts!!! and cold coffee!!!

Wind chill maybe not but ambient temp Oh yeah.

Temp will diminish any piece of electronics ability to function properly, high or low. It will effect the ammo too.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2edited for brevity and clarity)
Can wind chill impact my car's radiator or exposed water pipe?

A. The only effect wind chill has on inanimate objects, such as car radiators and water pipes, is to more quickly cool the object to cool to the current air temperature. Object will NOT cool below the actual air temperature. For example, if the temperature outside is -5 degrees Fahrenheit and the wind chill temperature is -31 degrees Fahrenheit, then your car's radiator will not drop lower than -5 degrees F.

In other words, if the ambient air temp is 35 degrees F (not freezing) and the wind is blowing X amount of mph to yield a wind chill of -50 degrees F, the wind chill effect will not cause the H2O in your birdbath to freeze.

It really is that simple, so don't shoot the messenger.

Absolutely correct.

So, what difference does it make to the an exposed person standing next to an exposed water pipe at ambient temperature of 35 degrees fahrenheit and a wind chill factor or -40?

That -40 will cool the water pipe to +35 faster than in still air. The -40 will kill the the exposed person rather quickly where still air will take all day.

And that's the reason we care about wind chill.

By the way, wind chill affects warm objects. Or, rather, objects at a temperature different from the ambient air. The original experiments were done with a water tank, but were meant to simulate the cooling effects of chilled air on exposed human skin. That is, how long can a person's exposed, dry, bare skin be exposed to moving air before frostbite sets in, compared to still air.

Objects at ambient temperature, wind chill affects not at all. That's why you can't measure it by simply putting a thermometer out in the breeze.

Now, let's discuss the effects of evaorative cooling...

Lost Sheep.

P.S. Seriously, I found the discussion educational, especially in comparison to the misconceptions I found sitting around the day room in the barracks by people who should know better. I could have used you guys back then.

quote:

Originally posted by Ahab:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
Could it be that the problem is the battery not operating properly at that temperature? Why not kep the battery warm somehow eg. in your pocket until ready to use?
Peter.

Very good point. Low temps will quickly disable an Alkaline battery.

If you don't want to mess with with trying to keep your battery warm, you could take 3 or 4 in parallel (not in series!!). The voltage would still be 9 volts, but with more batteries, the amperage would not drop off.. In an extended shooting session one, lone battery would cool down and could become unreliable (if that is what the problem is)

You could get a hot water bottle for your battery, or one half of a pair of those electrically heated socks.

Or splice in 25 feet of wire and keep the battery warm in your pocket throughout the shooting session.

My Chrony is sensitive to battery condition. My batteries still have plenty of power left to run other stuff when the chrony just won't perform.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Lottfan:
It could be as simple as a poor electrical connection. I have troubleshot many electrical discrepancies in aircraft that were temperature related. If the connections are cut a bit short the wire will shrink/contract in the cold. This can result in an interrupted or corrupted signal. Also as previously stated it could be the battery you are using is not performing in the cold.

Good call on the electrical connection thing, 458Lottfan.

quote:

Originally posted by Teh Dave:
I also didn't put the plastic thingeys on the top because it was overcast, but I think I'll put them on everytime for consistency.

My Chrony is very sensitive to the diffusers (I used to call them sky screens, but was corrected on another forum.), but I have found that using them on a cloudy day does not work so well. I discovered this on a very frustrating day at the range. When the sun was shining strongly, I absolutely needed the diffusers. When a cloud's shadow passed over my Chrony, I either had to remove the screens or wait until the cloud moved on. And the weather just would not make up its mind.

Don't be surprised if the diffusers don't work for you on a cloudy day.

I don't suggest it (too much trouble), but Chrony does make a set of lights to go in place of the diffusers that would make you independent of sky, clouds or even sun. Intended for indoor use, I think you can power them with a car battery, too.

How much smoke is coming out the end of your barrel (when it's cold as opposed to when it's warm)? The Chrony will be affected by water vapor "clouding" the passage of the bullet. You could move the instrument further from the muzzle.

Lost Sheep

Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post. Maybe especially this post.

Also remember, even the idiotic stuff might have a kernel of truth buried in there somewhere.

I have irrefutable evidence of wind chill effect on inanimate objects.

Traveling in Florida back in the days before having opened containers in the car was illegal (and nobody gave a damn what your breath smelled like if you could keep it between the shoulders), someone decided that wind chill would cool the beer. A six-pack was put behind the grill.

Anybody like hot foam?

One other thing that I would try is to use a lithium battery or a NIMH rechargable instead of an alkaline.

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:
I have irrefutable evidence of wind chill effect on inanimate objects.

Traveling in Florida back in the days before having opened containers in the car was illegal (and nobody gave a damn what your breath smelled like if you could keep it between the shoulders), someone decided that wind chill would cool the beer. A six-pack was put behind the grill.

Anybody like hot foam?

Good one, Winchester,

That reminds me, they don't usually carry the wind chill charts up above 98 degrees, but if they did, 110 degrees in 40 mph wind would be HIGHER.

Anyone ever look into how convection ovens work?

Lost Sheep.