I originally thought I wanted a 30-06; then I thought I wanted a 300 WinMag until I saw something somewhere about the belt causing resizing problems (something about "bulging" in the lower portion of the case; a sleeve was designed to alleviate this problem), then I stumbled across the Remington website and saw the beltless 300 RUM. I like the looks of it. Anybody here shoot it? How does it compare with 300 WinMag and 30-06? I'm looking for downrange velocity and bullet drop characteristics, per se. Thanks for all your intelligent, reasoned replies.

[ 08-27-2003, 05:41: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

That bulge could be on any type of cartridge. The device sold by "Inovative" is not needed so don't worry about that.

The 300 RUM should require a heavier rifle. The 30-06 can be built as a Featherweight which is a rifle that you will want to carry.

Buy both.

First, let me admit there's some inertia at work here. I already have a 30 caliber rifle, a 30-06. I like it very well. Around here, most of my shots are close. I know the drop well enough to ethically shoot deer-sized animals out to 300 yards, not that you can see 300 yards where I hunt. I'm not so good a shot that it would be ethical for me to shoot at game from field positions beyond that. I don't even know of a range around here to shoot at 400 yards.

That's inertia there.

Logically, I know that the less expensive 30 caliber bullets (Sierra, Hornady, Speer, Remington Core-Lokt) hold up at 30-06 velocities. Not that this big selection is something I take advantage of. I load a lot of Sierra 180 grain Pro-Hunter Spitzers and that's about it. A 300 Magnum of whatever description might tear up the cheaper stuff at close range, and I'd be forced to pay extra for Nosler Partitions or Barnes X-bullets or something.

Then there's the extra expense because of the extra powder and my not being a good enough shot to take advantage of another 100 yards of flat shooting. I don't know how much caliber-specific reloading accessories you are interested in, but if they're not made in 30-06 caliber, you probably can't buy them.

If I lived and hunted in flat farmland or out West, I'd want a 300 Magnum. Maybe I'll want one when I find a shooting range that's longer than 300 yards.

H. C.

Savage and Hank...
Thanks for the replies. The rifle in which the cartridge will be used will be shot strictly from a bench; I am estimating its weight to be at or near 18 pounds. Hell, the barrel itself weighs 8 pounds. I'm not much into recoil, you see. I found a recoil calculator at www.benchrest.com/sst and calculate that my rifle will recoil about like an AR-15. I was wondering how much recoil I'd get from the 300RUM vs the 30-06 or the 300WinMag.

If you want velocity and minimum bullet drop in a 30cal, then why not the 30-378 or 30-416? The only advantage of the 300RUM over them is cheaper brass.

.......I'm very biased to the 30-06. So far as I'm concerned it's Minimum Point Blank Range is as far as most accomplished hunters need to shoot, and shoot ethicly. In fact, it's useable way beyond the capabilities of most hunters in the field today. I mean they cannot use it's potential as it is.

If a person has the opportunity to shoot at deer at 350 to 400 yards then possibly they may need something like that 30 RUM. However they need to know that the range is in fact 400 yards, or whatever. In addition to mere distance there is any elevation change to consider and wind effects. We're not talking varmint hunting.

As another poster mentioned, if you were offered the chance to take a deer at such a range, and you KNEW for a fact that it was at 400 yards, then how well do you shoot at that distance? How much practice have you had at that distance? Where are your bullet drop figures coming from? If it's a book, you're not being fair to the animal at all.

Finally there is the availability issue, shootability issue, the usefull life of your firearm should you really shoot enough at 200, 300 , and 400 yards to know what it's going to do. One other thought which may help make your decision is to go out someplace where you can place an 8" target and pace off 400 paces. If you feel comfortable with that and can drop 10 rounds into it from a cold barrel in a field situation, then possibly the capabilities of such a cartridge is justifiable.

For me, I am not so much in love with venison that I would shoot at such a distance that required such a cartridge, in order to be effective. For me personally, 200 yards is as far as I would care to shoot. The main beams of my riflescope will subtend the major body thickness of the average deer at that range. I'd personally be uncomfortable shooting at a game animal any further away than that.

My dos centavos

..........Buckshot

I have a 300rum. I enjoy shooting and hunting with it. I have it shooting under an inch, and am happy with that. It shoots flat and detonates whatever it hits. That's the good news, here's the bad:

Shooting it is not cheap. It eats up loads of powder (~100gn/rnd). Brass life is not bad (~8-10 reloads for me), but proper bullet performance is elusive, as mentioned above. So I need premiums to even think about hunting. The accubonds look like a good choice, but I don't know yet.

I will shoot the barrel out of it. I don't know how long it will take (~500 rnds into it now), or what it will cost to replace, but I know it is inevitable.

It kicks like a mule. Shooting my Abolt SS, I find it hard to imagine that ANY 300rum will kick like an ar15. Buy a shoulder protector (or "tampad", as my friends prefer).

For bench shooting, it can be a little slow. Mine heats up the very thin barrel in 3 shots. It is hard to keep your hand on it after three, so there is plenty of down time.

Aside from these issues, the gun is really a hoot. However, much of the benefit is from the down range power it delivers. If I was shooting paper only, I wouldn't consider the hassle. I personally have alot more fun shooting paper with my 308. I certainly get in alot more time shooting rather than waiting for the gun to cool or cleaning the barrel (oh, yeah, it fouls the barrel up pretty bad with those velocities). With that said, you'll have fun either way. Good luck!

mikea...
A most informative post. The idea of a 30-caliber magnum over the 30-06 came about through a discussion of downrange ability of the magnum to counteract wind effects. Now, after reading several of these posts, it seems the magnum is really more noise, recoil and expense than is really necessary. I will never hunt with the gun I am building; it is strictly a bench piece at an estimated weight of 18 pounds. I don't know or care that it may be too heavy for any competition, but then I don't intend to compete with it, anyway-- it's for my enjoyment only and the occasional beer bet. One poster said that the '06 is beyond most shooters' ability to get everything out of it that it can deliver, so that is good advice to stick with it (as was the original plan). Thank you, gentlemen. This case is closed.

mikea,..how on earth are you getting 8 reloads? I am throwing the cases away with loose pockets at ~5 reloads. I am only using 86-87gr RL25 behind a 200gr pill thus far, so pressure shouldn't be the cause. I assume you FL size?

I don't understand the question, if you're only going to be benchresting at long ranges, neither the 300RUM nor the .30-06 is a caliber of choice. For up to at least 600 yards, the .308 is a far superior choice for several reasons, recoil, accuracy, powder consumption,barrel life, etc. At 1000 and beyond you probably need to be in the .30-378 range or more likely move up to a .338 caliber, although I'm sure the .300RUM will work. I think you need to do more research and shooting before jumping off into this project. Specifically, you need to talk to the Long range boys or the 1000 yard BR group and get a real understanding of what they use and why. There is no use in reinventing the wheel, they're years of shooting and research ahead of your current position.

The .30-06 is not even in the picture at either range for target work.

JustC,

I have had no problems with the primer pockets. So far it has been a couple of case head separations (starting) and a few split necks. I am full length sizing.

This post will probably jinx me, I'd better go get some new brass. So far, I'm still on my first 50 brass!

My load is a 180 with 93gn rl25 and 215m's. I've loaded up to 99gn with cci250's, but get alot more pressure with 215's. Not a particularily docile load...Sorry, I can't answer your question! In honesty, I never expected this kind of brass life.

Gato...
Reinventing the wheel is what I do; been doing it for years and years. I'm building this gun for fun and the exercise. The only person it has to impress is me. No disrespect here; just the facts, ma'am.

I built a 300RUM just for long range target shooting. But I can't find a combination of powder with very low Std Dev. in velocities. The lowest I get these days is 50fps spread. Thats IMR 4350. The other powders are worse. But with my 308 Win, I can get spreads as low as 20fps.

With the 300RUM, with these spreads, it will hurt accuracy past 500 yards. I know.

I figured out it was not the most ideal caliber for long range target shooting. Don't get me wrong, I like it, I got it shooting great up to 300 yards, and its flat, but not a perfect Benchrest gun.

I have 2 RUMS in 300 cal. I totally adore the cartridge. The link below is an example of the velocity/accuracy I am getting from the Rem 700 LSS. The other by the way is a new Remington Custom shop Kevlar stocked which is for sale. Let me know if interested:

300 RUM Rem 700 LSS groups:

http://groovebullets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=534

KS for sale with accuracy groups:

http://groovebullets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3518#3518

[ 08-27-2003, 21:48: Message edited by: POP ]

I put together a 30-378 on a P-17. I used a muzzle break from Brownells, don't remember which one right now. The felt recoil useing factory 180X's with a solid butt plate was close to my 7x57. It was rather easy to get sub 1" groups.
If you look at the paper ballistics then the 338-378 gives more velocity with a similar bullet weight. The increase in velocity outweighs the drop in ballistic coefficient for less bullet drop at long range. I didn't look at this before I built my 30-378.
I think that more velocity, a higher BC and heavier bullet will all be plus' at extreme range. Also with a huge overbore case, then you could probably shoot the surplus IMR5010 or similar that is $3 a lb.

Root beer:

Then why bother to ask questions at all? Most people try to learn from other's experiences, if you are not interested in what those who know about what you are asking are doing, then you shouldn't bother to ask. If you're just going to dick around off a bench and not try to shoot well, then you can shoot any caliber, it won't matter.

To quote Ben Franklin, "experience is a dear school, but a fool will have no other."

Gatogordo
I think you need to go to the Shooting record books and read some there son- That Grand old cartridge 30-06 held the long distance accuracy records for many years at 1000 yrds!!!
So yes it is a good chioce for his informal shooting at that range and a hell of alot cheaper to shoot too!!! Non Mag all the way baby!!!


[ 08-28-2003, 00:45: Message edited by: Gunnut 45/454 ]

Yeah, and when the .308 came on the scene in the 60's it blew the .30-06 shooters away and they shrunk the target size so there wouldn't be so many ties. Sure the .30-06 was good in its day, but there is ZERO discussion among serious target shooters that the .308 is a flat more accurate round, because it is.

Here is just one link, of many, that discusses the issue. The bottom line is, the .30-06 is a fine hunting round (I just used one in Africa) but when it comes to target shooting, it isn't even close to the .308 and THAT is a FACT.

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.htm

[ 08-28-2003, 07:31: Message edited by: Gatogordo ]

BTW, let me make it clear that we are talking about "target" differences here, and the record is incontestable that the .308 is superior for target shooting, at least up to 1000 yards, but I certainly am not going to volunteer to let a good man with a .30-06 shoot at me at any range. My momma taught me better than that...

Gatogordo,
Look at the accuracy of the 30/06 in the reloading section of this w/s.
Stepchild

stepchild:

Read the link, and check the real shooting records. One gun doesn't mean much, but thousands of shooters over 40 years or so is a pretty good sample. Again, we are discussing small differences in performance here, but in target shooting, small differences are the difference between winning and showing up.

I'm not going to argue this ad nauseum, it is a fact. I would hope that some long range shooters would chime in, but it doesn't matter, it is still true.

[ 08-28-2003, 08:59: Message edited by: Gatogordo ]