Stretching out Brass Life

With the cost of components getting higher and the availability getting scarce, this desired project of mine became very timely.

I started this out with 5 batches of lots of 10 pieces of brass each, in both 223 and 22.250 calibers.
As availability of 22 caliber bullets rapidly disappeared from the shelves, I finally slowed that down to two batches and finally one batch of each lots.

The 223 brass was Remington and the 22.250 brass was Winchester. Since the results are pretty near identical, I will just use the 223 Remington for the sake of this report.

In the Remington brass, I decided on a mild load of 14 grains of SR 4759 with a 55 grain Hornady SP as my standard bullet and load. Based on availability, with the 223, both Small Rifle and Small Pistol primers were use. I picked this load, as this is one of two loads I commonly use out of the test rifle.

The test rifle was a Remington 700 ADL with a 24 inch sporter barrel. This was in a bolt action rifle.

My goal for this test was to be able to get 50 reloads out of this lot of brass. I will follow thru for my own on a couple of other lots of brass, but feel the results will be the same.. and learning a few new things, predict that the case life can be stretched out beyond the 50 reloads, by quite a bit.

The other important thing here is Dies. I have learned that more brass is destroyed at the reload bench resizing that any where else. I have also learned that certain types of dies and procedures allow long brass life, by producing less wear on working the brass.

Lee Collet Dies

Instead of full length sizing dies, for this test I use Lee Collet Neck Sizing die to resize the neck after each firing. These do not resize any other part of the case except the neck.

Redding Body Dies

When the cases became hard to chamber, instead of a full length die, I used a recently discovered ( by me at least) wonderful product from Redding, their Body Die. This die only bumps back the shoulder of the case. Unlike the Full length die sizers, it does not resize and therefore stress the rest of the case, that usually leads to cracks at the webb at the bottom of the case after 10 to 15 reloads. This is very important to stretch out case life.

Key is that these cases were being used in the same rifle over and over, so that the brass adapted to the rifle’s chamber, so therefore did not have to be completely resized back to SAAMI specs….This worked so well, that I did not have to use the Full Length die to resize the brass, until I had done 47 reloads on the brass, to bring it back into specs, due only to a slight increase of chambering difficulty.

Brass Trimming

Based on the load being used and the use of the body die, I did not have to trim the brass at all during this project. I did do it at the 48th reload, just to see if it was getting stretched at all.. and the case stretching was actually pretty minimal. Sadly one of two casualties during the entire project was at this point, as I screwed up one of the pieces of brass when I neck sized it with the Lee Collet Die after trimming them.

Annealing

This is another thing I have finally started doing, was annealing the cases. Mine didn’t turn out pretty like Lapua cases are from the factory. Mine got black and skuzzy. I tried the method where they are heated and dropped in water. They ended up black on the upper half, and looked like crap. I also switched to just dropping them into a small metal bucket, and just let them air dry. That appeared to have no difference and didn’t make them as black as using the water.

I did try and stretch the annealing out to every 10th reload on the brass, which worked fine, except the first casualty I had on this batch of 223, was at the 41st reload. It developed a small neck split.. One new member on a forum said that he was annealing this brass after every 4th reload. After the neck split, I switched over to this, and think it is a good idea.

Depriming and Priming:

I have to admit of picking up a habit of being anal retentive when it comes to depriming. I got started on using a Lee Univeral Deprimer several years ago. Yes it adds and extra step, but it has also cut down on the number of stuck cases in my dies I have had to wrestle out of them.

As far as repriming, none of the primer pockets loosened up over the 50 reloads. A prudent load did help out, but then again, this rifle is used for varmint shooting at 200 yds or less, so max velocity was not needed. So backing off on the throttle, will help primer pockets stay nice and tight.

Conclusion:

If you want to stretch out your brasses case life, which is essential for high volume varmint shooter
I recommend the following:
1. Redding Body Die.. was needed to be used on this test every 10th reload.
2. Lee Collet Die… used each time of course
3. Annealing: Get yourself an Annealing set up you like to work with. I recommend this every 4th to 5th reload on the brass
4. Prudence: backing off a little on max velocity, saves you brass by stressing it less
5. Dedicate: Dedicate each lot of brass to a dedicated rifle, if you own several varmint rifles in the same caliber as I do.

The testing itself was pretty boring, just like lab work. You have to have a results orientated focus to do it. You get into a pattern, but it is pretty much load and shoot, load and shoot. I have plenty of forest around here, so just going a mile up the road, I had a spot to discharge my firearm to do this testing over and over…The Remington brass performed well thru the entire test!

Test Casualties:

As said above, out of the 50 reloads, I had two casualties. One at 41st reload, by a neck split, which if I would have annealed the brass on a more vigorous schedule, it probably would not have occurred.
The second casualty was operator error, at the 48th reload, so we can’t blame the procedure. If Seafire wasn’t all thumbs at times, it would have made it to the 50 reload mark with the other cases.

Return on investment:

Consider this though. Using 223 as an example. A bag of 100 pieces of brass, is say $22 to $25.00 at today’s prices. Using these procedures, if you can get 50 reloads out of each case, that one bag of 100 pieces of brass, will yield you 5,000 shots down the barrel! With prices of brass, and even worse, questionable availability, this yields a pretty good Return on Investment. Considering this was also picked up range brass, I had zero cost into the brass I used for this experiment.

Seafire
March 2009

While I have never kept accurate track of the number of loads I have had similar results with brass fired in a 6X47. The lot of brass used was somewhat unusual. You never find range pickup .222 Rem. Mag brass ...but I found most of a box one day. I added a few once fired culls that I had bought to make an even box of 20. The box of 20 had scratch marks from being stepped on on rocky ground. Not exactly brass to use in a benchrest rifle. However I have 3 barrels and two rifles so the worst of the 3 barrels was used for the learning process.
This cruddy box of brass was used to work up my first 6X47 loads. I fully expected to blow a primer or two due to the lack of pressure gun data for the 6X47. I was cautious and never blew any primers. The brass was then used repeatedly for group shooting since it was readily apparent the rifle would shoot better than I could.
The brass was FL resized in a RCBS FL die so I could get it in the 40X chamber the first time. All subsequent loading was done with either a solid Shilen neck die made from a barrel stub or a Wilson bushing die. Both sizers require an arbor press. This box of basically free brass has been fired over 20 times. It was trimmed after the first firing in my rifle. It has never been FL or body sized again. It has never been trimmed again. It has never been annealed. I attribute this case life to the use of the bushing dies barely sizing the neck enough to hold the bullet.
The Shilen die was fine for the first few loadings but only had about .0005 press to hold the bullet. As the brass got harder the brass spring back made the press fit somewhat less so I switched to a bushing that was about .001 smaller. My 6X47's barrel is a Remington 40XB-BR barrel. It has a snug well cut chamber but is not a tight neck chamber. I used the Remington brass without turning the necks.

quote:

Originally posted by seafire2:

2. Lee Collet Die… used each time of course

I have gone on a similar quest, and I got to the same point.

Great info Seafire.

Thanks for going to the trouble to test it out

That sounds like a very mild load, what bullets and velocity were you getting in the 223? Have you done any tests with more average loads? It seems like a lot of people waste a lot of brass by tossing it before it wears out. I know a guy that refuses to load any brass more than 5 times, even if it looks perfect still. Seems stupid to me.

quote:

Originally posted by The Derek:
That sounds like a very mild load, what bullets and velocity were you getting in the 223? Have you done any tests with more average loads? It seems like a lot of people waste a lot of brass by tossing it before it wears out. I know a guy that refuses to load any brass more than 5 times, even if it looks perfect still. Seems stupid to me.

I never use loads that stretch the primer pockets unless it is something that occurs while working up a load. With front locking bolt guns or falling block single shots the brass will normally get tossed when the neck or body cracks. That is always more than 10 loads per case. I even get good life out of rear locking actions except for the .303 Lee-Enfields- they are brass eaters.

quote:

Originally posted by The Derek:
That sounds like a very mild load, what bullets and velocity were you getting in the 223? Have you done any tests with more average loads? It seems like a lot of people waste a lot of brass by tossing it before it wears out. I know a guy that refuses to load any brass more than 5 times, even if it looks perfect still. Seems stupid to me.

Yeah it does seem like a dumb move. maybe he loads real hot and the primer pockets won't hold them in anymore. Who knows?
I've been using a box of .375 H&H for my cast bullet shooting in my Ruger #1H. The load is a 275 gr. cast bullet with 49.0 gr. of H-4895 with velocity estimated at right around 2000 FPS. That one box of ammo has been loaded a bit over 20 times so far and is still going strong. I full length sized them for the sirst reloading, then neck sized four times with an RCBS neck sizing die. One the next loading, I annealed the necks and full lenght sized the cases. The I followed this pattern, 4X neck size, then anneal and full length size. Then I do the same pattern all over again. Works quite well for me.
Paul B.

Actually some of my favorite people in the world are guys that use brass once or twice and then consider it unusable and toss it...

especially when I am the recipient of such brass...

I visited Roger Bartsche several years ago when down in the LA area.. he was at his local range...

they were chuckling I bet at the guy from Oregon picking up the brass that folks were leaving laying on the ground...

I picked up a batch of 6.5 x 55 brass that Roger had reformed into 7.62 x 55.. or whatever his French rifle was using...

I reformed it back to 6.5 x 55, and I am still using that same batch of 50 pieces he was just going to throw in the garbage can....

I love guys who buy 100 rounds for their AR and then go out in the woods around the corner from my house, blow off the 100 shots and leave the brass just laying on the ground! Overnight in the tumbler and then resize it and I am ready to go...

When I was a wildlife mgt student at the univ of az in 1961,1962 & 1963 we were out on weekend class trips east of Tucson in the area where a lot of the Indian Wars occured so there were lots of interesting items on the desert floor.We found broken army messhall cups and 45-70 & 44 brass from the 1800's,most had been stepped on & crushed to prevent the apaches from reloading it and using it against the troops.I found an 1878 45-70 shell tarnished but in perfect condition.In the 1970's I acquired a 45-70 remington rolling block rifle with a navy arms heavy octagon barrel,added a unertyl target scope & used it for Schuetzen shooting.We were breech seating the cast bullets ,weighing out powder and adding it to 45-70 cases.I used the 1878 mil brass case I found on the AZ desert floor,sized it and added a new primer used it several times w/o any problems;estimated age was over 90 years

hey Seafire,
Two things I was thinking about while reading your marvelous results of 50 loads on .223 brass.

1. Did you use a wire to sense for thinning near the web of the case? or did you rely on inspection alone?

2. I see you, like me....like clean brass and I stopped tumbling this year and replaced it by a regimen of ultrasonic case cleaning. have you ever tried this...if so, what do you think about it? I use the method explained on 6mmbr.com under the articles section and only have to clean up the necks with 000 stell wool when I anneal.

thanks

I took 308 brass to 22 reloads in a M1a. I full length resized, tossed brass with neck and body splits. I used IMR 4895/AA2495

I sectioned cases with body and neck splits to see if case head separation was going on.

I noticed that the inside lower third of the case had a spongy surface. I assume that small spots of brass were being eroded away during combustion.

I don’t know how much strength is being lost. Obviously something, but I don’t know if it is significant.

Excellent Test - great data.

223 SAAMI registered max average pressure is 55,000 psi.

The .223 case head can take at least 70,000 psi and not have the primer pocket grow in inside diameter.

Each time the case is fired, it shrinks in length.
Each time the case is full length sized, it grows.

223 brass fired at 70,000 psi and the FL sized will have a net growth of ~ .0050".

That means one or two firings between case trimming.

The book says max length of the case is 1.76" and should be trimmed to 1.75".

The case length of most chambers is 1.786 - 1.791"

The amount that a cartridge will get pushed forward by the firing pin in most 223s is .003 to .008" if the case is FL sized down to the minimum and the chamber is .003" to .008" over the minimum headspace.

Of my (5) 223s, the Bushmaster had the shortest case space and the largest headspace, but is still has a max usable case length of 1.778".

So screw that 1.760" talk in the load books.

At 66,000 psi, the case only grows .0005" per shooting reloading cycle if the Lee Collet die is used.

What does is all mean?
I can get a 223 case, fired in an AR15, FL resized it, and even if it grows past 1.760", I can skip trimming it. I can shoot it in my varmint rifle, and get 20 or 30 firings at 66,000 psi without trimming.

What does THAT mean?
If you have 10,000 rounds of used brass from AR15s, trimming after sizing would take the rest of your adult life.
You don't want to do that.
You don't have to do that.

55,000 psi is a cruel joke.
You don't have to do that.
As long as the primer pockets don't get loose, it is not too hot.

Hot loads and FL sizing make the 223 case grow allot. That could mean trimming.
You don't have to do that if you use a Lee Collet die.
You may have to FL size [the first time] to get the case to fit in other rifles. So FL size and skip the trimming the book says to do. From then on, just size the neck with the Lee Collet die each reloading cycle. Keep shooting the same brass in the same rifle and it is possible to avoid trimming.

FWIW the "Ackley Improved" guys have known for a very long time that the less you work the brass the longer it lasts.

If one starts life by chambering his rifle to fit a case he has FL resized in his set of dies....hopefully with no more than .002 headspace in total he can has superb case life as well.

Use of the collet dies to neck size only is probably a big plus.

As to the 70,000 PSI issue.....I have no way of knowing what the pressure is of my reloads but whenever I go over the maz printed in my manual I get volcanoed primers and ruptured primers and small discs clog the firing pin holes.....not just in one rifle.....once I had three of them decommissioned for this reason....

I backed off the load a grain and the problem was solved.....

From my personal experience the .223 doesn't lend it self to loading very hot.....but the performance of the loads listed in the books are quite good!....performance of this round is far greater than it looks like it should be.....a great varmint round!

This thread confirms.....case life may be inversely proportional to the amount of work done to the brass!

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/...961&highlight=bushed



Mike Bryant and Gre-Tan seem to be the two places most people send their bolts to get the firing pin bushed.
I have not used either.
I am tooling up now to do my own.

Ever notice that 9mm handguns with hot loads pierce primers and leave a divot in the firing pin hole? Dry firing the pistol turns it into a pellet gun

seafire2 ----- I just bought one of the RCBS X dies for my .270 WSM, that is supposed to not streach the brass. Time will tell. Good shooting.

quote:

I love guys who buy 100 rounds for their AR and then go out in the woods around the corner from my house, blow off the 100 shots and leave the brass just laying on the ground! Overnight in the tumbler and then resize it and I am ready to go...

From whom I got most of the X-thousand cases I have...

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Excellent Test - great data.

thank you very much!!

Excellent report.

My main way to extend the life of my brass it to keep the loads near the minimum - except when I fooling around with an experiment.

Hack