I bought a bunch of these in a "deal" and am wondering if anyone has had any experience with their terminal performance. As I gather, they are supposed to be a 'tougher' bullet than the typical .224", but what kind of penetration and expansion do they yield? Do they expand quickly enough for varminting use?

Thanks!

I've tried them out in at least four rifles and can't get better than 2MOA consistantly at best. Have refrained from using them on anything but paper.Almost tempted to make HPs out of them and see if changing the center of gravity would help. Might make a good short range black tail bullet??? roger

Stonecreek, is this the regular 60 grs SP with no cannelure you got, or does this "barrier bullet" signify anything special?? (Sorry to be thick).

I have shot the 60 grs Hornady SP in my .223 Rem R93 barrel, and they shot very well. Sorry, I have not whacked a deer with them yet, but I've heard they should be very good (for a non-premium .224 cal bullet).

- mike

The "Barrier" bullet is a 60 grain spire point with a rather flat meplate and a cannelure. It is presumably the bullet that is used in special purpose police ammunition to provide superior penetration, according to the lore associated with it.

Like Bartsche, I have not had particularly good luck with accuracy in two guns (.223 and .22-250). But accuracy in the .22-250 is sufficient (1.5") for game like whitetails if the bullet provides appropriate terminal perfomance. Hornady .224's have a reputation for holding together a little better than most .224's, but I am wondering if the "Barrier" bullet would act too much like an FMJ?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
but I am wondering if the "Barrier" bullet would act too much like an FMJ?

sounds like a job for wet phone books to me.Hmmm roger

My results with them in .22-250 over IMR7383 (MV ca. 3350 FPS) have been in the 1.5" range at 200 yards. But I'm not a skilled benchrester and I'm not using wind flags, "daisies" or such. My expansion "testing" has been just informally blasting a few milk jugs full of water at short range. They splattered them well, much more violently than FMJs, and I saw one bullet track on the surface of the clay dirt that suggested the bullet had mushroomed before exiting the jug, rather than fragmenting. The bullet dug out a shallow groove in the dirt before rebounding upward, about the same profile that a roundnosed .38 might make.

2 MOA is entirely possible.

My 1:8 223 likes them better than that, 20 rounds in less than 2 inches at 100 yards over H 4895 , Federal primers , LC brass.

The one I sectioned showed a really thick jacket , a VERY thick base, and a small diameter of lead ( same size as what appears on the nose of the bullet ) for approximately 1/3 of the bullet length.

If you are really interested in specs Email or PM me and I will look them up.


Travis F.

The jacket thickness at the cannelure is .030" to .034" thick.Hard to get a more precise measurement but that is a lot of copper. Kind of reminds me of the old Barnes' originals Except these are drawn.Where legal these might make a fair deer bullet for those of you who are inclined.I've loaded some up at a little over 2900 fps.that I plan to put into wet paper Wed. I'll let you know. roger

After carefully disecting ,melting out core and light deburring we have arrived at new and better measurements. after a number of radial measurements. the wall thickness on the case varies betwee .0275" to .0290" not quite as thick as previously measured. the base thickness measures almost exactly .030" with perhaps a .015" radius base to wall.This still very strong construction. roger

Bartsche: Thanks for coming up with the specs. Let us know of your penetration/expansion results. Sounds like this bullet might be a slow expander and deep penetrator from the construction you describe. Now, if I could only get it to group better . . .

Penetration Test 60 gr.barrier bullet.Velocity= 2900 ft./sec.******Distance to target 8"***. used coffe can with 5 extra metal lids in it for silencer**** catch midia 12 sopping wet inches of phone books held tight in 5gal. plastic bucket.**** CZ 527**.222

Reults****** bullet penetrated coffe can and five(5) extra metal lids, side of plastic bucket and 9" of weted phone book.

In order of travel: hole in first lid measured .235"' second lid = .230"???, third lid = .240", fourth lid= .243", fith lid = .268", hole in can lid =.310",as did the hole in the bucket.There were 4 logitudinal splits in the bucket oposite the entry side.

The spent bullet weighed 28.5 gr.47.5% of its original weight.The bullet mushroomed .330" to.385"

The greatest devistation was 3" to 6" into the wet phone books.

The plastic lid on the coffe can came back so hard it broke my scope cover lens. I knew it would pop off the can but I never expected it to come back with such force.The coffe can went forward hard enough to make a number of circular impressions on the plastic bucket.

Photos of the lids, coffe can , bucket, spent bullet and cross sectioned bullet can be E Mailed upon request . I never posted pics on the forum and don't know how.If some one gets them E Mail they can post them if they choose. I guess that's about it. roger

Bartsche: Thanks for posting your results.

How does this compare with some .224 bullet of known characteristics, like a 55 grain Sierra Varminter or 55 grain Hornady Spire Point?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Bartsche: Thanks for posting your results.

How does this compare with some .224 bullet of known characteristics, like a 55 grain Sierra Varminter or 55 grain Hornady Spire Point?

I knew someone would ask that! I'll disect one and let you know. I'm kina runnen short on lens covers so no penetration tests. roger

55gr psp Rem w/cannelure

Wall thicknes .015" all around, Base thickness .018". ******** That is reall a significant difference. roger

Where are you getting these bullets ?
I have not found them listed yeat

Johnch

quote:

Originally posted by johnch:
Where are you getting these bullets ?
I have not found them listed yet Johnch

I think I bought them at Mid South. I also bought 60 gr. law enforcement real cheap. They may or may not be the same. roger

Thanks for all the technical research, Bartsche! Sounds like the Barrier with its heavy jacket might "pencil" through a small whitetail on a broadside? I think I'll try one this fall on a meat doe just to see how satisfactory they are.

Stonecreek,

I have used the regular 60gr Hdy sp on our little (Scottish!) roe deer out my 5.6x50R MV 3,300fps.

They worked well, I did recover one that was pretty well mashed but that might have hit a piece of vegetation before the doe.

I know you and I hold the same beliefs re bullet expansion. Never is it so important as in 22s on deer. 50gr hornady sp at 222velocities caused me severe problems on 2 good double lung shots that I can only put down to lack of expansion. I put that down to a bad batch but thereafter resolved to stick to 55gr sierra gamekings or standard 60gr hornady sp out of this rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Thanks for all the technical research, Bartsche! Sounds like the Barrier with its heavy jacket might "pencil" through a small whitetail on a broadside? .

From the amount of devastation to the phone book at the 4 1/2" mark I'd have to guess that this bullet isn't going to pencil thru especially if you are using it faster than I tested it. You might just find it'll go in about 3" and look like a granad went off in its boiler room.If you use it out to 200 yds. out of a .223 starting at about 3150fps. it'll still be going 2500 fps.Any where between those two it looks like it'll penetrate and expand just fine and have point blank 4" performance to 325 yards.Let us know how it does on your doe.

Tried a couple loads today with the barriers. One in the .222 at 3000 fps and got a 4 shot 1/2' group with 1 flyer about an inch out*****50 yards.

One in the 22-.250 at 3600fps** 10 shot 1" group at 50 yards.( 1 in 14 barrel) roger