27 October 2011, 03:52
richybgreen rust?
I loaded up nosler partitions and after a week in the bush moose hunting ( in the rain mostly) some of my bullets have a green skum on them and dark patches. The partitions are likely 20 years old or more if that matters. whats that all about?
27 October 2011, 05:32
TailgunnerCopper oxide
You can scrub it off (scotch-brite works well), or simply dip the bullets in some white vinegar and water followed by a water rinse.
27 October 2011, 18:06
243winxbNo Vinegar. It can cause dezincification. Fine steel wool works. Wipe with a clean cloth after, to remove any residue left.
27 October 2011, 20:11
jeffeossoNEVER use vinegar and lead ...
the lead oxide will be disolved, and EXTREMELY toxic
28 October 2011, 02:50
amamnnThe REAL soliution to this problem is to shoot more often than in hunt camp--join a club support it and the NRA while keeping your skills sharp and your ammo fresh..................20 years????? can you say mossback? sure you can.
28 October 2011, 06:01
Tailgunner243win
I said DIP and RINSE, not leave it soaking for weeks. He's already losing copper on the bullet to the oxide.
Jeff
Calculate the amount of lead oxide that will be generated during the DIP and RINSE VS the amount that will be generated during the years that slug lies buried in the dirt (after going through his quarry, of course)
28 October 2011, 06:22
richybquote:
Originally posted by amamnn:
The REAL soliution to this problem is to shoot more often than in hunt camp--join a club support it and the NRA while keeping your skills sharp and your ammo fresh..................20 years????? can you say mossback? sure you can.
I just baught a bunch of reloading stuff from my neighbour. It was his dads stuff and in his reloading data he has stuff dated in the 1970's. Its not like ive been hauling these shells in the bush for 20 years or more. The bullets were still sealed in the box also.
28 October 2011, 06:33
jeffeossoquote:
Originally posted by Tailgunner:
Jeff
Calculate the amount of lead oxide that will be generated during the DIP and RINSE VS the amount that will be generated during the years that slug lies buried in the dirt (after going through his quarry, of course)
not for nothing. wiping or dipping, you still have a highly toxic substance, ON YOUR HANDS.
28 October 2011, 07:23
akalininquote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
NEVER use vinegar and lead ...
the lead oxide will be disolved, and EXTREMELY toxic
C'mon Jeffe, sugar of lead isn't that toxic - just wear gloves and don't lick it for God sakes!
28 October 2011, 08:00
jeffeossoisn't that toxic?
absorbed though the skin..
shelf of of eons
killed most of the messengers in the american rev, as it was used as invisible ink?
it is one of the worst things a shooter come in contact with, that is't over 500 fps...
it IS that toxic, and machismo/poopooing it won't make it any better...
dang, boys... please understand and accept how nasty it is..
28 October 2011, 10:56
ALFGreen patches on copper bullets? Lead oxide? Methinks not!
Pure Oxidation of copper = Copper Oxide, not green but red
Green patches = Copper Sulphate or copper carbonate.
Not pure oxidation but addition of pollutants in form of salts or acids with hidration that allow for the proccess to take place
Toxicity: Not so much as to warrent extreme caution other than it can cause contact dermatitis and irritation if you get in the eyes.
Lead oxide and Lead Dioxide ie oxidation of metallic lead.
Yes lead is toxic but many of the salts produced when lead is oxidized in the presence of other chemcials lead to highly insoluable formulations that wont dissolve readily, you need to ingest the stuff to get poisoning
if it were as toxic as claimed here then we should immediately ban the use of lead bullets, not so?
As to lead used in the civil war:
Lead is found in nature bound to minerals
The union army got their lead from a mine in Balmat New York, this lead is called Galena or Lead sulphide, other forms Lead Sulphate ( anglesite) and Cerussite or lead carbonate. In order to get metallic lead from this the lead bearing ore needs to be chemically treated.
The oxidation of lead leads to a number of possibilities dependent on what chemicals are present when oxidation takes place.
The result is then a variety of lead salts. All are toxic when long term exposure takes place.
Lead oxide = PbO
Lead dioxide Pb02
Adding vinegar ( acetic acid to lead oxide) leads to the formation of lead sugar or lead acetate and this was the stuff that caused widespread lead poisoning in the history of mankind, (Romans and Dutch) it was used as food sweetner by the Dutch and is claimed to have caused the death of some famous people ? Beethoven
In the gun trade vinegar was used to clean lead from gun parts and the product that was left behind was lead sugar. Because of it's toxic nature modern laws dictate that it be disposed of to specific standards.
This is then also the reason and basis for the lead ban in bullets. Lead oxide in mildly acidic water in nature forms lead acetate and this when ingested slowly poisons birds. ( not just conjecture but proven fact!)
29 October 2011, 09:41
noyljOH my god, we're all going to die!!!!!
Wipe off the bullets if you want or simply shoot the darn things.
It just doesn't matter...
30 October 2011, 22:38
jeffeossoquote:
Originally posted by ALF:
Green patches on copper bullets? Lead oxide? Methinks not!
no one said it was, doc.. however, wiping an exposed lead bullet with an acid will leach lead into the acid, won't it?
oh, wait, you agree
quote:
lead acetate and this was the stuff that caused widespread lead poisoning in the history of mankind,... Because of it's toxic nature modern laws dictate that it be disposed of to specific standards.
capture whole post afore it is deleted
quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
Green patches on copper bullets? Lead oxide? Methinks not!
Pure Oxidation of copper = Copper Oxide, not green but red
Green patches = Copper Sulphate or copper carbonate.
Not pure oxidation but addition of pollutants in form of salts or acids with hidration that allow for the proccess to take place
Toxicity: Not so much as to warrent extreme caution other than it can cause contact dermatitis and irritation if you get in the eyes.
Lead oxide and Lead Dioxide ie oxidation of metallic lead.
Yes lead is toxic but many of the salts produced when lead is oxidized in the presence of other chemcials lead to highly insoluable formulations that wont dissolve readily, you need to ingest the stuff to get poisoning
if it were as toxic as claimed here then we should immediately ban the use of lead bullets, not so?
As to lead used in the civil war:
Lead is found in nature bound to minerals
The union army got their lead from a mine in Balmat New York, this lead is called Galena or Lead sulphide, other forms Lead Sulphate ( anglesite) and Cerussite or lead carbonate. In order to get metallic lead from this the lead bearing ore needs to be chemically treated.
The oxidation of lead leads to a number of possibilities dependent on what chemicals are present when oxidation takes place.
The result is then a variety of lead salts. All are toxic when long term exposure takes place.
Lead oxide = PbO
Lead dioxide Pb02
Adding vinegar ( acetic acid to lead oxide) leads to the formation of lead sugar or lead acetate and this was the stuff that caused widespread lead poisoning in the history of mankind, (Romans and Dutch) it was used as food sweetner by the Dutch and is claimed to have caused the death of some famous people ? Beethoven
In the gun trade vinegar was used to clean lead from gun parts and the product that was left behind was lead sugar. Because of it's toxic nature modern laws dictate that it be disposed of to specific standards.
This is then also the reason and basis for the lead ban in bullets. Lead oxide in mildly acidic water in nature forms lead acetate and this when ingested slowly poisons birds. ( not just conjecture but proven fact!)