Hiya Guys,

I am in the process of gathering the components for a new custom rifle in .223 Rem.

I am not sure just yet whether to go for a standard .223Rem or to go for the Ackley Improved ???

What do you think and why ???

I am leaning towards the Ackley improved for the increased velocity.

The spec of the rifle will be as below.

Tikka T3 Action Blueprinted.
Tikka T3 trigger.
26" Kreiger 1 in 8 fluted barrel
Mcmillan stock in A3/5.
Accuracy international magazine and bottom metal.

I want to use the rifle for long range varmint shooting upto 600yds and paper punching upto 1000yds and I was hoping to use the 75grain AMAX.

I have ran quickload and I hope to get about 3000-3100fps with a2520 or varget.

Do you have first hand experience with this calibre with similar loads, or can you give me some tried and tested loads in this calibre with the heavier bullets.

Thanks guys in advance for your help and advice.

I am a fan of the 223 AI, but I use 12" or 14" twist and load 40-55 gr. bullets at high velocity.

so you are gonna build a rifle almost as good as a 22-250, and with the gain of almost 5% case capacity.
you could just about make the velocity with a proper twist a tight chamber and a longer bbl.

Yes, don't expect much gain in velocity from the small increase in case capacity going to the AI version. Go with the AI if you think it is cool looking, if you think it will set you apart as a wildcatter, or if you just want to. If you want enough of a performance difference to actually see - then use a bigger case like a .22BR or .22-250.


.

I've got a 1/14 twist on my 223AI but this may help
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

Mine is a Rem action with a H-Bar Hart 1/7 twist. 69gr SMK under AA2230 works very well for me...Lapua brass, Wolf SM R Mag primer. Grain amount of powder I cannot remember (work, load data book home).

I'm happy with mine. Very accurate. The 70gr TSX is also a good one to try. I also use AA2230 for this bullet. It like a long jump!

simple solution is called the 222 mag

quote:

simple solution is called the 222 mag

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
simple solution is called the 222 mag

Got to ask whats your 222mag velocity and how does it compare to a 223AI?

WOW I read through the OP's post 4 times and nowhere did I see him ask for caliber recommendations for his new build.

Could be he has a very good supply of .223 brass on hand, and wants to use it up, or could be he simply wants to build the rifle HE is paying for.

Why is it folks feel the need to throw in what THEY might want instead of simply answering the questions asked?

robbobsam,

THe link provided to the 6mmbr write up is a good one. Well written and very informative. I have used a few of the loads, but in the lighter weight bullets. Then again my barrel is mounted on top of a Contender frame, and is only 14" long. It's a real shooter and I like it very much.

The velocity increase you will see is not going to amount to much with the lighter bullets, but you will gain "some" with the heavier ones. You should also see longer case life, and less trimming, if you keep things on the sane side.

Good luck with your build, take your time and have it done right and you will have a ball with it. I wouldn't get overly carried away with too tight of a neck, while it might be nice if your in competition, one that is on the minimum side of SAMMI will allow a wider selection of factory and surplus cases with out having to trim to fit.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
Yes, don't expect much gain in velocity from the small increase in case capacity going to the AI version. Go with the AI if you think it is cool looking, if you think it will set you apart as a wildcatter, or if you just want to. If you want enough of a performance difference to actually see - then use a bigger case like a .22BR or .22-250.


.[/QUOTE
Or a 22 PPC* roger

Have a 223 AI p/dog rig set up for 6-7 yrs now..

Savage s/shot w/heavy 12 twist Pac Nor tube

3500 fps with a moly 55 Nosler & 27.5/Benchmark

Safe load in my rifle...very pleased with

performance of the cartridge...have a very ample

supply of ass't 223 brass...dies are easy too

223 rem, only .. fast twist barrel .. theres NO POINT in an AI on a 223 .. if you want 22-250 speeds,.. well, build one

On the plus side...you do gain ~1-2 gr H20 in case volume...~29-30 gr H20 in the 223 depending on the case to ~31-32 gr H2O, again depending on the case and the reamer. That might be 5-7% increase and you might gain about 1 to 1.5% more fs in velocity depending on a whole lot of other factors.

One of my "pet peeves" is P.O. Ackley was long gone before the 223 even appeared so HOW can it be an "Ackley Improved" when Mr. Ackley never even saw the cartridge...but that doesn't really matter, does it?

I've been doing wildcats and several of the Ackley versions since the very early 60's and I still have a 250 SavAI, but in todays world I would pick one of the present day, modern cases if I wanted a hotter 22 cal..even though one of my fav's is my 22-243 Midd.

On the negative side, the dies are more expensive, and the cost of a rechamber makes the miniscule gain of very little value no matter what the reason...

EXCEPT...if you want a 223AI then do it...doesn't matter spit what anyone else thinks.

QL might be a bit optimistic with the velocities, besides you will only know for certain when you start load workup. My Load from a disk comes up with ~100fs less, ~3000fs for the same powders and ~100fs, ~2900fs less with the same powders for the standard 223 case.

In reality if you want a "long ranger" and just have to have a 223 case then get a fast twist barrel, 1-8 T, goto some of the varminting forums as there is plenty of good info for that bullet in the standard 223 case.

Alternatively if you are wanting a 600-1000 yd rifle in 22 cal there are many, much "better" cases, argumentatively speaking, but you start running into "diminishing returns" around 243 size cases.

I think optimally speaking a case in the 40 gr H20 volume might be better for a "long ranger" in 22 cal, which is why the 22-250, 220 Swift, 22-243 Midd and cases in that size work so well.

I'm building a 220 Swift right now, 1-8 T, 28" bbl, Rem XP-100 action for the same purpose, but I picked the 220 Swift because I've been shooting them for 40 odd years, have plenty of brass, dies and even a few hundred factory and loaded ammo from the last 220 Swift I had, but all those were 1-14 and 1-12 T barrels...just wanted to try it with a fast twist for heavy bullets...65-80 gr.

Every cartridge I ever worked with had good points and bad points and would cause a great hue and cry if you happened to be on the wrong side of the argument fence. Just work with the "wrong" points to optimise them any way you can and enjoy the "right" ones...no big deal.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by armed_in_utah:
Have a 223 AI p/dog rig set up for 6-7 yrs now..

Savage s/shot w/heavy 12 twist Pac Nor tube

3500 fps with a moly 55 Nosler & 27.5/Benchmark

Safe load in my rifle...very pleased with

performance of the cartridge...have a very ample

supply of ass't 223 brass...dies are easy too

When Varmit Hunter Magazine published data for the 223AI with 1/14 twist barrel with varies powders and 50gr Berger,Nolser BT,Speer TNT, the low velcoity was 3528fps and high was 3751fps. with 55gr bullets low was 3417fps and high was 3559fps both the low velocity was with Berger bullets.

I will agree the 22Br at least mine gives about the same velocity as the 223AI. I've got a 222mag in the works be interesting comparing it against my factory Rem 722 222mag.

As to reloading dies: I have had great success using Lee collet dies for the standard 223 to load my 223 AI. Lee makes full length dies for the AI that I bought for the same price as a set of standard dies.

One advantage of AI with most cartridges is that they do not stretch as much and do not require frequent trimming.


"Have a 223 AI p/dog rig set up for 6-7 yrs now..
Savage s/shot w/heavy 12 twist Pac Nor tube
3500 fps with a moly 55 Nosler & 27.5/Benchmark
Safe load in my rifle..."

That is the same load I use in my 12" twist rifle with 52-55 gr bullets with similar results.

I have two 223AIs. One in a 1:9 sporter config and one with a 24" heavy 1:8 Shilen barrel. They do very well with the 75-77 grain bullets out to 600yds.

Lee has a standard 223AI die set and mine produces cartridges with .002 max runout. The collet die for the standard 223 works fine for 6-8 loadings and then I need to use the full length die. No case stretching and long case life. The primer pockets go before the necks split.

Uses very little (relatively speaking) powder and cheap, easy to find brass. If you don't have any 223AI brass, it still shoots regular 223 ammo just fine.

The only negative that I can think of is that some actions may not feed the cartridge well. That can be tuned but it can be a pain. Not a concern if you are single loading on a bench.