I have been reloading my 264 winnie for some time now, and have stupidly just been throwing the empties in a box and reloading them whenever I have needed them. The problem I have is that I do not know how many times i have reloaded them.By what method do you assess the life of a case?

regards
griff

I take care and count the times I reload a case.
For safety, mostly about 6 times only. Some guys reload up to 20 times. But it all depends on case quality, headspace accuracy when sizing, chamber fit aso.

Your reloading manual should give you pointers to check for signs of case head separation, which is the biggest danger.

have a good one. see you in the highlands

Niels

The biggest clue is how many time you have to trim a case. For a straight walled case, that will be never and you start throwing them away when they start to split.

There are many cases I've reloaded a LOT more than six times but I inspect each case carefully each time. For detection of incipient head separation, put a pointed wire down the case and see if there is a groove near the head.

another idea is to use only normal and hot loads for new brass, and then after a reasonable amount of firing, only use them for light loads.
I did the same thing with my 45-70 barass and didn't keep track of it. I'm about to save that starline brass for only light loads and just buy a new batch and keep better track of it.

Case life varies a lot with the gun it's fired in and the pressures it's reloaded to.

If the gun has a minimal chamber and the brass fits it closely then using moderate loads can yield ten or more reloads!
To keep track of the number of reloads I buy new cases and load them and put them in a box of 50. As I shoot them I put the cases back in the box and when all are fired I take them to my reload bench and make a mark on the inside of the box to indicate one firing! A box of 50 for big game hunting can be a very long supply as many times I fire only three or four rounds a year.....so keeping track is important!

In my case the primers get very easy to seat, but they still shoot at least once more, and no primers have fallen out, yet.

Never had any luck with the wire trick, probably because they've never been close to a head seperation. When ever a shiny ring looked dodgy I'd hacksaw the worse looking one, but inside they looked good.

Seems like head seperation is a headspace and over FLSizeing problem.

And I save my "old" cases just in case I need them for "just one more go."

As I've seen brand new (Win .308) brass split at the neck, I don't see how counting the number of shots can work. Depends on the load.

I have some 7x57 Winchester cases that I've loaded at least a dozen times. The primer pockets are still tight enough to work properly. I shoot them in a Ruger 77 Mk II that I bought new.

The number of reloads you get from a case depends on many factors, not the least of which is how hot you load your loads.

I trim my cases after every shooting.

__________

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
I trim my cases after every shooting.

Why?

Well it depends on many factors, and my worst is the R-P hornet cases which only give about 2 loadings! The best would have to be my HART-Sako 6 PPC which will go to about 25 before the pockets seem loose. I think I could stretch that if I wasn't so anal about cleaning the pockets! The balance I judge by how the primers seat, or if trimming is necessary... I think on it.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
I trim my cases after every shooting.

Why?

I trim my brass when it's new to .03 under max and never trim it again for the life of the case.....

Why anyone wants to trim after every loading is a puzzle to me.....guess some folks like to do it.....'m not among them

Split cases, loose primer pockets, shiny rings are all a sign of worn brass. How hot do you load your ammo? How often do you have to trim? You really should come up with a system to keep track of how many times you have reloaded them. I use color coding with nail polish on the primers. just a dot, and I keep a piece of paper taped to the inside of my ammo box with dots of nailpolish and a number next to the corresponding dots. When you tumble your brass majority of the polish comes off. as far as what to do since you have no idea, I would pick a number that sounds good to you, and start keeping track from there, observing all of the above symptoms I mentioned earlier. Oh, and do not use too much polish, if its thick, the rounds can be hard to chamber depending on your headspace.

quote:

Originally posted by griff:
I have been reloading my 264 winnie for some time now, and have stupidly just been throwing the empties in a box and reloading them whenever I have needed them. The problem I have is that I do not know how many times i have reloaded them.By what method do you assess the life of a case?

regards
griff

Sorting them is the best way. I never go for velocity. You won't tell the difference between 100 or so FPS. This'll ensure better case life as well. But nothing is for sure as 308Sako says "it depends on many factors".

Vapo you trim yours too .030 from max? Hmmm... Good idea,

when I have to trim ive been going .010 from max.

Wackin .030 sounds good . I resized some 8mm mauser brass to 9.3x57 and they were pretty short from max, and I liked it.

Might have to take more off on my "trim too" measurement so's i aint gotta do it no more

I'm one of those wayward masochists who trim cases after each firing. If asked why, I would have to say that it makes sense to me that a longer neck equates to a firmer 'grip' on the bullet. All about eliminating as many variables as possible.

Thanks guys,
just to add: I have always had a shiny ring at the base of the case, this being my first belted case, I thought this was normal. One of the problems is the F/L dies finish sizing just where the shiny ring is, so this is confusing the issue.
I always trim, sometimes it cuts sometimes it doesn't, but then they are all the same length..

If I weighed them all after cleaning and trimming and then discarded the light ones, would this indicate that they have not had the flow of brass towards the neck that the light ones have had?

regards
griff

quote:

If I weighed them all after cleaning and trimming and then discarded the light ones, would this indicate that they have not had the flow of brass towards the neck that the light ones have had?

I don't think that would be a reliable method since even new cases vary in weight.

To feel the early signs of case head separation I use a straightened out paper clip with the tip bent out to 90 degrees.

It is very easy to feel if the brass is thinning this way.

I only reload for my 375 H&H and I get between 10-12 reloads before throwing them out.

Reloading cases can be tricky depending on several factors . Rim , rimless , Belt ,Rebated ?. Chamber size extraction forces , caliber ( like Wild Cats )Forming , fire forming Etc. .

How hot a load ?.

Main thing inspect carefully Neck Sizing and trimming ( Only when needed ) extends case life . One very important factor USE GOOD BRASS to start with !. Also if one wants to properly anneal their brass will extend case life considerably .

I personally have loaded 7 MM Rem mag cases over 25 times ( Without annealing them ) Remington brass ( 38 years old ! ).
Now I don't recommend that to any body .

I generally start with Quality Brass ( Lapua RWS or others including Remington ) . I do how ever try to stay away from Winchester brass ( I've had bad luck with it over the last 6 or so years . I then trim under size then use neck & shoulder dies . Or what ever they call those new dies ?.

Then after 6 - 8 loadings I inspect them real close then anneal them . I repeat this 2-3 times. then their history ..

I can honestly say in almost 40 years of reloading , I've only had one case separation .

Way back when I knew nothing of brass life !.

I have Norma 308 Win cases that I have been kind too, I do belive that they are somewhere between 15 and 20 reloads.

I can feel the primer pockets sort of loosing up but I dont get any primer flow or backing out.

I neck size 3 times and full size one time in intervals, trim when needed using a lee trimer that has been taken down .2 mm to ensure a fully trimmed case.

I still can shoot ten rounds with in the X at 300 yards on the standard target.


I belive in inspection, cases that has been dented or scratched or othervise compromised should be tossed.

I also would like to say that when tossing brass use a plier to destroy it, i have had my rejects collected and reloaded by an other shooter and the end result was not the best...

Well best regards Chris

Since we're talking about a belted case here, I'm suprized no one has mentioned partial case resizing. Much like neck sizing except done with a standard F/L size die, partial resizing will allow the case to head space from the shoulder, not the belt. This action alone will help prevent excessive resizing and unnecessary case stretching thus affording longer case life.

I've shot non-belted cases so many times one could no longer read the case head! I've also reloaded belted cases upwards of 20 times without problems, but no matter how one cuts it there are other things that must be done to ensure long case life.

As mentioned by others, case mouthes tend to split after having been work hardened, so one must periodically anneal the case mouth/neck area. Primer pockets must be watched closely as all cases aren't created equal. Some stretch for no reason, while others seem to last forever. As a rule of thumb, I trim cases no more than 5 times. Think about it -that excess brass came from somewhere.

Having said that, I think there are a few rules of thumb that will keep one safe.
1. Trim no more than 4 or 5 times.
2. Discard cases when primer pockets become loose.
3. Cases used for load development should be kept separate from all others.
4. Don't reload cases that are known to have been subjected to overload conditions.

Yes to all of that . I use those RCBS X-FL dies that's what I couldn't remember was the name of them . they do what ( BuckShot ) was talking about . If one has loaded enough then they know ( Inspection ) is the key above all else .

Shoot straight know your target !...

I agree w/ Grumulkin's first post in I have also shot brass time after time until showing sign's of damage or "when the start to split"
and also definately as Dr.K says "inspection is the key above all else"

What can happen that is bad when you have case head separation? I've actually had it happen several times w/ my 7mm-08. They split a little up from the case head. Nothing has ever happened. That's when I throw them away. Mark

I use a dummy method, since I can be a tad disorganised. I mark each reloaded case by coloring the primers with permanent markers. 1st reload is blue. 2nd reload is red, 3rd is green, 4th is black, etc. I get up around 7 reloads I get nervous and take them out of service. That's just me. I never load to max, so I hope I'm safe enough.

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:
I trim my cases after every shooting.

Why?

Partly habit, but also for consistency.

I use the Lee case trimming system, so I have no control over the length to which the case is trimmed. But by trimming them every loading, the overall case length remains constant.

All,
I always load to the max, never over, but always on the limit, i don't see the point in owning a magnum and shooting to standard velocity, might as well own a 270 or 6.5x55. I have just tried the paper clip method of detecting case head seperation, but all cases do not have any ridging in wall, I presume that if there is any sign, them it will easily detected by this method?

regards
griff

A shot (or 2) before the head starts to separate, the brass will thin at the head/wall junction, forming a V. This V is fairly easy to feel with the "bent wire" trick.

Externally, there are rings, and there are rings. A 1/8" wide "rub" ring, just above the base or belt, is normal, but a sharp thin (.030ish) line means the head is about to separate from the body.

With a tight chamber and minimum working of the brass in the sizing die, you'll start splitting necks (from work hardening) before the base will give way. With proper annealing of the necks, you'll need to re-barrel the rifle about the same time your first 200pcs of brass are ready to be scrapped. OTOH with a jugged (oversize) chamber and minimum spec dies, your brass may be toast in only 3-5 loadings.

There are a lot of variables affecting case life.

One shot with an over load can expand the primer pocket and the case is history.

One shot in a poor fitting chamber and the brass can be history.

Assuming you do not over load, your case life is affected by how well your loads fit the chamber.

First thing to control if you can is the headspace of the reloaded round. This means setting the dies up to permit the case to headspace off the shoulder if the round has a shoulder adequate for the purpose. If there is no shoulder you have to depend on a rim or belt.
If you have the rifle chambered, try to get this done to fit the rim thickness or belt dimension.
Even if you have minimum headspace you can have trouble if the chamber is grossly oversize in diameter. When fired in a over diameter chamber the brass stretches radially. When sized you may not change the shoulder location but the now fatter case grows in length as you squeeze the body diameter back down.
Another villain is the stretchy, springy action.
Even with all details taken care of the stretchy action will still give you head separations with just a few shots fired.

For an education in case head separations try a #1 Mark 3 Lee-Enfield. Head space is often long,
the action is springy, the chambers are much larger in diameter than the brass and it operates at relatively high pressure for a round developed in the late 1880s.
I use a lot of once fired brass, most of which comes from indoor ranges. I have inspected a lot of once fired brass before I bought it. In this case the initial firing acts as sort of a functional test. I have found a number of blown primers from fired factory ammo. This is usually 6mm Remington and 25/06 brass. I have found one badly expanded Norma 7X57 case.
Most 303 British brass shows signs of excessive expansion with the first shot. This is not excessive expansion from excessive pressure but from poor fit of the case to the chamber in a springy action.
I have found separated and nearly separated case heads of practically every brand of once fired 303 British ammo.

Case life can easily run the gamut of ejecting just the case head in a Lee-Enfield on the first shot, to having cases fired in a tight chambered bench rest rifle last 50 rounds or more.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
I have found separated and nearly separated case heads of practically every brand of once fired 303 British ammo.

I started reloading the .303 about '59 without head seperation problems, probably because here in those days we usually only had neck sizers supplied with reloading dies.
Even in the '70's I was still getting neck dies only for a Swift, which makes it a bit hard to wear your brass out.

quote:

Originally posted by giladad1:
What can happen that is bad when you have case head separation? ...

Hey Mark, In some situations it can cut a divot in the side of the Chamber. Kind of like a miniature Acetylene Torch.

You can get Gas Blow-by which can push trash and high speed hot gas into your eye. Some Rifles are much worse about this due to their design than others.

The firearm might vent the Pressure through the Magazine and create over-stress problems in an area not designed for a lot of Pressure.

But, the reason you might not have experienced a problem was "when" the Case Head Separation occurred during the Firong Cycle. It is not something you want to continue happening.

As has been mentioned, the Bent Wire (L-shape Feeler Gauge) will alert you to Insipient Case Head Separations. I've found it helps to Nip Off the end of the wire with Side Cutters so you end up with a small Chisel Tip to drag inside the Case. The Chisel Tip will "Catch" the groove easier.

Best of luck to you.

Griff : I load to Max !. ??
I load for accuracy Griff !. What good is a Magnum or any other weapon if it's not accurate ?. The maximum load is not always the most accurate !.

I will trade 100-200 FPS any time for X ring accuracy every time !. I can re chamber a round in less than a heart beat if need be . I know this for a fact when hunting dangerous game !. My weapon is NEVER EMPTY , until I or anyone else who is with me are to a point of safety ,

If no one else mentioned this before ,brass life is dependent on chamber tolerances as well as Min to Max loads . The hotter the load the less life brass has .

By the way nothing wrong with either 270 or 6.5 X 55 !. I've got an old war horse 6.5 X 55 swede that will shoot 7/16" groups of 5 at 100 Yd. More times than not on any given day !.

Not bad for a $82.00 Surplus Clunker !.

Shoot straight know your target ...

Griff,

Chuck them. You have 65,000psi 6" from your face kept in place by those cases which may or may not be about catastrophicaly fail and which might cost £40 max to replace.

I have found the paper clip unreliable. There is no guarentee the ring is going to be 360degrees around the case. Also the differential number of uses means that your nect tensions are going to be pretty different which isn't great for accuracy.

Also did you change brass for your new rifle?