Sorry for confusion, but I am brand new to reloading and have a question. I started reloading a few weeks ago and am getting good results using RCBS dies in a 7-30 Waters by neck sizing, but am having issues with a .30-30 Lee collet die. I set the die as the literature says and I primed 50 cases and measured and weighed my inital loads and when I seated a Nosler 125g BT I could pull the bullet out by my finger alone! I poured all of the powder out and set about trying to "crimp" some more. I did not want to have to remove the primers so I had another mandrel from a 300WM collet die that I broke the decapping pin off. I was able to run primed cases back in the collet die without de-priming them. No matter how I adjusted die I could not get enough neck tension. This is the only set of .30-30 dies I have. I am using a Lee Classic Cast press. Finally I got out my micrometer and measured the mandrel(s). Both were ~0.3065" for the length. I polished the mandrel in a drill and got down to 0.305", but the neck tension was still light. Evidently the brass is "springing" back slightly. Finally I put mandrel in drill and used a file to remove metal where it is 0.301". After loading a couple of rounds with this setup it appears that I have much better neck tension as I cannot move the bullet by hand. My question is whether this is normal to have to do and how much neck tension do I need? I am strictly going by "feel" while seating the bullet in the press and I have only loaded a couple of hundred rounds so far. Oh by the way this a great forum and I spend way too much time reading the post here!

Welcome to the forum Gator.

You did the right thing on that die as far as I can tell. When you set the die did you keep adjusting it so it crimped more and more or just turned it in per the directions?

In any case I crimp them twice by turning the case a small amount before the second crimp.

Somehow I think that your not turning the die down enough.

Thanks for input however I definitely turned die in enough. To be sure I turned the die in an additonal 4 turns after it contacted the shellholder!

The press ram stops when the collet is fully closed on the shell mouth over the mandrel. It just did not seem to be able to close down enough for good neck tension.

I did crimp twice by turning case.

Gator...Now your taking about a Lee Collet neck sizing die? Not the crimping die, correct? When I use my Lee collet neck sizing die, I make sure it is clean by scrubing the internal surfaces. Then the set-up is to turn the die in one full turn past shell holder contact. Then I put a case in and run it up about 95% then lower and turn thr brass then run it back up 101% and then lower and turn the brass then run it back up 101% or until the ram arm is all the way down very tight about 40# pressure. Then take the case out and try a bullet. A flat based bullet should not enter the mouth. If this is the case you have properly neck sized the brass, if the bullet goes in you have a problem with the die and I would contact Lee. But if your cases are neck sized ok (flat base bullet does enter mouth) and then you seat the bullet and find that after seating your bullet is loose. You have a problem with the bullet base being too large and over expanding the mouth. This happened to me with some Berger bullets that were moly coated. They were loose after seating but went in tight. Burger agreed that these bullets were oversized at the base and replaced these bullets. So determine if it is the bullet or the die. Good luck, but you can not do that now as you have altered the die, I guess. The bullets I had were 0.001 oversized at the base. That was enought to strech the mouth alittle and then the moly lubed it and made it slip even more.

Savage99, are you talking collet dies or Factory Crimp dies? W/ the term crimp, I didn't know if you were speaking about the collet die but, If you were speaking about the collet die, Do you size turn and then size again? I haven't tried that but, it does seem like it may be more precise.

Gator,

You did the right thing by turning down your Mandrel, It's a common thing w/ the collet dies. I just wouldn't go too far, if you get it too small, you may get into some pretty bad run-out issues.

Reloader

quote:

(flat base bullet does enter mouth)

I ment to say bullet does NOT enter mouth here.

Thanks for the feedback. This is the collet die and NOT the factory crimp die. It just surpried me that I had to do anything besides just use the die. I did pull down hard on the handle, but was concerned that I would "pop" out the threaded aluminum plug on the top of the die.

Gator, in principle you did the right thing: you polished down the decapping mandrel and you made sure the die was turned in far enough. What has me a bit worried about your description, is that you seem to have exceeded the recommendations of Lee in at least two ways:

If I'm not much mistaken, you have turned in the die further than what the instructions specify ("To be sure I turned the die in an additonal 4 turns after it contacted the shellholder! ").

Secondly, you polished down your decapping mandrel about .005". The die instructions are quite clear, that Lee does not recommend the mandrel be turned down more than .001". The instructions state, that if you turn the mandrel down further, you'll simply expand your case with the bullet. That is in general a bad practice, as it may damage your bullet where you want it the least: at the heel.

The Collet Dies never work brass a whole bunch, that is their strength and their weakness. With this strategy, they produce very straight ammo at very little cost, but they don't work particularly well with workhardened cases. Was the brass you fired old, had it been fired more than a few times?? Is the size of a fired fired neck considerably larger than a sized neck?? Either can cause your brass to workharden.

I use Collet Dies all the time, and have yet to experience that I had to turn the mandrel down more than .001", even with older cases. So I'm a bit at a loss about what happens in your setup. Before you perform further experiments, maybe it would be best to get in touch with Lee, and see what they have to say. I'm a bit worried that you seem to exceed setup recommendations.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by GatorT/C:
Thanks for the feedback. This is the collet die and NOT the factory crimp die. It just surpried me that I had to do anything besides just use the die. I did pull down hard on the handle, but was concerned that I would "pop" out the threaded aluminum plug on the top of the die.

The pressure you place on the collet is not being borne by the aluminum cap -- only the decapping rod is held down by the cap; the sloping steel shoulders of the die body that bear against the collet are taking the pressure.

Lee Collet dies frequently require honing the mandrel down by a thousandth or so in order to give appropriate neck tension. Since your die required going several thousandths, I would suspect that there may be a burr or other obstruction that is keeping the collet petals from closing completely. It is not necessary to put all that much pressure on the collet -- the collet itself is ususally slighty softer than the shellholder and will begin to brad and deform if you place excessive pressure on it.

Your reduction of the diameter of the mandrel was the right thing to do, so if the neck tension now seems appropriate, be happy.

By the way, in order to size necks without decapping live primers, remove the aluminum cap and drill a hole in the underside of it slightly larger than the diameter of the mandrel and a quarter-inch deep or so. This will allow the mandrel to be positioned so that the decapping pin does not touch the in-place primers. To decap normally with the modified die, simply drop a dime (or similar sized slug) under the cap and screw it back on. The dime will now serve as the surface against which the decapping pin (mandrel) bears. This is what I did with a .243 die when I, too, discovered that neck tension was insufficient and had to hone down the mandrel in order to re-do about 80 primed cases. And it only cost 10 cents.

your problem is NOT uncommon for the Lee collet sizing die. Here is what you can do,..first mic the brass neck thickness and see if it is unusually thin. If so, scrap it and buy new.

Now, I doubt that was the problem,..and this IS the problem. Your Decapping mandral is TOO LARGE in diameter. You need to chuck it in a drill, and turn it down a few .001"s. be carefull not to take too much material,..just mic it, and turn it down a little. Reassemble, then see what tension you have. If it is still not enough, chuck it up again and take a another .001" off it.

DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN THE DIE,..it WILL blow the cap out the top.

Gator, this is off the subject, and I am not sure what kind of weapon you are using for the 7-30 Waters and the 30-30, but in my experience neck sizing in lever actions can be frustrating. This hasn't anything to do with your problem at hand, but as you state you are new to reloading and you might run into a problem chambering neck sized cases if you use a lever action. Something to remember if you have chambering problems.
FWIW I have used Lee products for years and they are great products usually, and will happily replace/repair unaltered products.

Good luck and good shooting,
Eterry

I am using a 14" Contender with the 7-30 Waters, and a 10", 14" and 21" Contender barrel in the .30-30. I have noticed that I must keep brass from different .30-30 barrels seperate as the chambers are quite different.

Pistol
Fluke group

I shot a contender in a 30-30 based wildcat, 6.5 grassl rimmed, a 7 intl rim necked down, and I can assure you that for a contender, you should be full length sizing the brass, not neck sizing. If you neck size, you'll have trouble closing the action on loaded ammo, and will get inconsistant grouping. Do a google search for Mike Bellm contender sizing, and you'll get a good read on how to size brass for a contender.

Don't worry about the fl sized brass being less accurate, I could shoot 3 shot groups with all holes touching at 100 yds when I held steady with the 6.5 GR barrel.