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http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

I am in the middle of the same dilemma. I am building another LR rifle. I have a 6mm X .284 and a 6.5 X .284. I am after a little more case capacity and the Lazzeroni cartridges are a natural. There is a very good article on the WSMs and the Lazzeroni line in the September/October edition of RifleShooter. This is what got me on the hunt for a WSM type 6.5mm. Fortunately, John Lazzeroni has already figured out the Short Mag design many years ago. Just like Lazzeroni and Dakota figured out the Ultra Mag case design decades ago... Go Figure

[This message has been edited by Zero Drift (edited 03-11-2002).]

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Death Before Dishonor

BTY - Would you have the case dimensions on the Spitfire and the Phantom? Are you loading either cartridge? I have conflicting information and Lazzeroni has been very slow to respond...

Since the Remington has a smaller case capacity it would probably be a better starting platform even though I prefer Winchester brass. Also, a famous shooter by the name of David Tubb competed and won last year using a .243 Winchester shortened 1/8" and he called it the 243X. You could use a similar concept for the 6.5mm. A normal 6.5-7mmRem. Short Magnum chamber reamer could be used but run it in 1/8" shorter than the published finished length. This would give you a smaller case capacity and a longer neck when you form brass. I think it would give you almost exactly the case capacity you are talking about. I am not sure of exactly what could be done with respect to the dies and might take a custom die set, but that is available. You should take a hard look at the shoulder angle and body taper angle. The Winchester has a sharper shoulder angle which also increases case capacity but makes case forming a bit less user friendly. Just one of those personal decisions that make wildcatting so much fun.
The only other thing that I have been considering real hard is perhaps getting a radiused shoulder like the Weatherby cartridges in order to facilitate case forming.

Playing with the "Load on a Disk" program indicates that this combination would balistically be virtually identical to the 6.5-284, so any gain would probably only be in the potential accuracy department rather than higher velocity. A lot of work and expense, but if there is an accuracy improvement to be found it would be worth it. Another possibility would be to wait a year or two and see if Remington or Winchester come out with what you want in a factory round. There have been rumours that they are testing the short magnum concept in calibers between .243" and .458".

I may be wrong, but I don't think the 6.5 Rem. Mag. meets (1) and the belt... well, the belt...
And I think the Lazzeroni Spitfire does not achieve (1) or (3).
The Dakota I know absolutely nothing about but will investigate.
Isn't the RWS standard length?
The x.284 is certainly a success and almost makes my idea redundant but for neck length and (1).
Correct me if I'm wrong - I'm here to learn (almost as much as I am here to B.S.! ).
Shoot this theory down too, for me. I wonder if seating bullets deep into the case might contribute to faster throat erosion because the gases and hard particle of unburned powder can pass by the bullet before it obdurates and seals off the bore... sort of like gas cutting. Is this a crazy idea?
Regards --
-- Doc

My personal opinion is, the percieved benefits of the "perfect" case are pretty minor compared to the many close enough designs out there. I just can't see putting the extra $ into the custom dies and reamers, you'll be adding $200-300 for those items, not to mention case forming dies.

I'd also strongly consider going with 120 gr bullets, and see how they seat in the 6.5-284 and 6.5 WSM or RSM. I also think the case capacity gain of the short 404 based rounds is questionable in the 6.5 bore, especially considering how they gobble up magazene space.

A 120 gr X bullet a 3200 fps would be an outstanding combo. With the X construction, you don't have to worry about the lighter bullet not penetrating, nor the bullet blowing up at close range.

(shortened for brevity)

I've been struggling with the same idea as yours for years.

Just last friday I toook the following steps to remedy our "percieved problem":

Ordered a piloted reamer and throater based on a WSM case proportional to a 6mm PPC.

Case length of 1.82 and a neck of .285. 35 degree shoulder.

This will allow the use of a short action WITHOUT stuffing the bullet well below body/neck junction.

Close to capacity of 6.5-284

Hopefully accuracy potential of PPC/BR

I'll keep you posted.

Wally
Waggoner Rifles

quote:

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Originally posted by Zero Drift:
Doc - Before you spend a lot of time inventing things that already exist,

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But that's what wildcatting is all about.

:-P

Carcano
(rather try to revive excellent old factory cartridges)

[This message has been edited by TnMan (edited 03-16-2002).]

While they are somewhat redundant, there is nothing wrong with another gun. However, if it came down to one or the other, I would consider selling your 6 and plough the funds in a new action, stock, and barrel.