Anyone have any recommended loads for a 20" barrel? Looking for Partition and Aframe loads that will run 2,500-2,600 fps out of the barrel.

Since you didn't state what gun you have it's hard to recommend a load but the same load one would use in a longer barrel will also be the best performer in a shorter barrel.

I suggest Varget as a "go to" powder

I don't think that it can safely be done, with that weight bullet in that construction style, from that length barrel.

Even the Germans in WWII were only getting 2,493fps out of a 23" barrel with their at that time advanced powders.

Factor in the longer bearing surface of a Swift A-Frame or Partition and no, I don't think it can be done safely, not in a 20" barrel.

I reload this cartridge for shoot in a Sutzen Mauser with 18" barrel and my fast handload speed at 2219 fts. a 196 grs. RN european bullet with local pòwder similar in rate to IMR 3031 (Oheler 33 medition). 2" more barrel aditioned 50 / 70 fts.? Regards

What do you think a reasonable fps is? I got some loads from Superior Ammo (havent shot yet), but Larry thinks about 2,300 fps from the barrel. That's a bit slower than I want - especially for large plainsgame at 200 yards.

Picked up some S&B 196 grain ammo tonight at Cabelas. It's rated at almost 2,600 fps from a 24" barrel; suspect it will hit 2,450-2,500.

The rifle is a Mauser 98 (Spandau 1915) that has been worked over by a very competent gunsmith.

quote:

Originally posted by H�ctor Carlos Roveda:
I reload this cartridge for shoot in a Sutzen Mauser with 18" barrel and my fast handload speed at 2219 fts. a 196 grs. RN european bullet with local pòwder similar in rate to IMR 3031 (Oheler 33 medition). 2" more barrel aditioned 50 / 70 fts.? Regards

That sounds about right, 2,300 fps

check the Hodgdon website for 200 grains using varget.

that max loads on Hogdons look close to what I think Superior is using.

A 200 grain bullet Muzzle velocity 2300 fps. at only 200 yds. should be just ducky. If you must N160 might give you 2450 fps. in that barrel length. roger

Vihtavuori lists an 8x57 IS load with a 200 grs Nosler Partition

quote:

N160 start: 50.5 grs, max: 56.2 grs (2575 fps)

BUT... the velocity shown is for a 24" barrel, AND the VV manual has a tendency to be a bit "optimistic" with its max loads, so approach max with caution!

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
What do you think a reasonable fps is? especially for large plainsgame at 200 yards.

Picked up some S&B 196 grain ammo tonight at Cabelas. It's rated at almost 2,600 fps from a 24" barrel; suspect it will hit 2,450-2,500.

Test the S&B ammo over a cronograph. I suspect whatever the speed is will be a good representation of what you can achieve with handloads.

I also think that if the S&B ammo is accurate in your rifle, that it may be a good choice to use on the hunt rather than handloads. I tried some at the range about a week ago, and it was accurate in my rifle.

I settled on a load using H380, but that's with a 23.5" barrel. H4895 and Varget worked great too.

KB

I'm hoping the S&B is accurate, not sure why not. I am going to chrony it. My only concern was bullet construction. I would prefer something like an A-Frame or Partition, thus the handload.

Now, the S&B may be terrible in my rifle. If so, I still have the Superior Ammo sample pack that I plan to shoot, albeit it is loaded to 200 fps less than the S&B.

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
...My only concern was bullet construction. I would prefer something like an A-Frame or Partition, thus the handload.

I would prefer an A-Frame, Nospler Partition or AccuBond as well. If however your S&B ammo is loaded with the "SPCE" bullet ( http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/m...d-shortcuts.php#SPCE ), then that bullet works fairly decently on medium to heavy game. I have shot quite a few critters with those bullets out of my 8x64S - at approximately the kind of velocity S&B advertise for their 8x57IS factory ammo. At that velocity, I never had any problems with the bullet coming apart.

Some people believe the SPCE bullet is a tad hard on the meat, but on an African hunt this is likely a secondary issue. One thing about the SPCE bullet is the sharp edge (German: "Scharfrand") on the outside of the bullet. This seems to be a European design feature, but you'll be surprised at how freely entry wounds bleed with this bullet design.

So even if the A-Frames etc should not happen all is not lost ...

- mike

Biggest thing I will probably take will be a Waterbuck, at under 200 yards. But it has to be a whopper since I already have a whopper

quote:

Originally posted by Austin Hunter:
that max loads on Hogdons look close to what I think Superior is using.

In a properly heattreated action as I use I'd not hesitate to go up a few grains from that....one can easily make the 2500 mark with a 20" barrel.....but I have no clue as how good your action is.....and can't recommend you exceed the data on Hodgdon's website.....with a Remington 700 I'd go up quite a bit....but that's a very strong action.

You said it was built by a competent smith.....and frankly that don't mean a thing to me.....was the action professionally heat treated is the question......and many will say they don't have to be.....unless of course I'm the guy shooting it!

I'd say however that there's no reason you can't use the date presented on Hodgdon's and chronograph your loads.....you could make very close to the 2500 mark as it is!

I'm with the others: 2600 from 20" is probably asking a bit too much from an old action.

I can run 200 partitions just under 2500 with a 21" barrel (8x57 JRS), and the Factory RWS gives me 2490 average with 196s.

H4350 will work as will RL15... The latter will obviously give you a little more case capacity.

Haven't tried Varget, but its burn rate is very similar to RL15.

Where can you get RWS in the US? It's hard to find!

I did go to the range today. HOLY SMOKES BATMAN

First, the S&B SPCE 196 grain loads shot like crap and fed like crap. I'm not even sure if they made a group on the paper - maybe 6"

So I shot the 200 grain Nosler Partition from Superior Ammo. Better, but still not grouping under 2". But they fed like a dream.

I was getting worried.

Shot the 200 grain Nosler Accubond from Superior..... the group was one hole the size of a nickel. WOW. The also fed well.

Then moved to the 200 grain A-frames. Shot better than the Partitions, but not much better. Fed well.

So it's the 200 grain Accubonds. I think they will run about 2,300 fps in my barrel. Good enough for 200 yards or less.

Accuracy wise, I have also had very good results with the .323 cal 200 grs AccuBond. I have not shot a ton of game with these bullets, but with what I have shot I have had no reason to complain.

- mike

quote:

200 grs AccuBond

I load these for 2 buddies.

Using a way-y-y <than max dose of H-4350.

Never chronyed them, since they're both too busy hunting with their rifles.

One uses a Blaser R93; the other Mauser 98.

Both swear about the accuracy & terminal perfomance. According to both it is the Bullet from Hell (for the beasts) in this cartridge and drops 'em like the Hammer of Thor.

I wouldn't get too Wrapped around the Axle @ 200 meters; you don't have to lob 'em in like mortar fire. A +2.5" 100 meter POI will get the "Job Done" handily.

I've got an 8x60S. I use H380 and ended up with a worked up loadmidway between the 8x57 and the 8x64/8mm06 charge weights for a true 2,600fps. This is from a ZG47 with 24" barrel.

I don't think you will get 2,500fps from a 20" 8x57 but if you really wanted to get as close as you could you would use Norma brass (lots of capacity) and try Viht N550. You might try messaging Monastery Forester who has done a lot of work on 8mms.

Actualy I don't think you need to push too hard. An ordinary or partition bullet at a MV of around 2,300fps is what the 8x57 excels at.