ricciardelli,

I only bought neck size dies for this cartridge. I have FL dies for my other cartridges, nut I really want to take this rifle elk hunting this fall. Is there some other way?

Ol' Joe,

That sounds like good fair advice. I am just getting started and I thought things would be different. My brand new brass is all different lengths, my loaded cartridges have different OAL's,...it seems that the only thing that I haven't had to buy another tool to complete is measuring powder. That I have mastered!!

I get some cases loaded and someone tells me that the flash hole has a little bur and accuracy suffers if I don't debur it.... it just keeps costing me money and causing hair to fall out, but I'm loving it!!! I'll just be glad to shoot some of these things. I started this for accuracy and more shooting. I still have not fired the first cartridge

"I only bought neck size dies for this cartridge.... take this rifle elk hunting this fall."

I would strongly suggest some FL dies. You will be pretty mad if you screw up a hunt because a cartridge gets stuck. I think the neck sizing trick is much better situed to target shooting than hunting. For hunting, I would rather sacrafice a small amount of accuracy for reliability.

Hear! Hear! I could not agree more.

-Steve

scot said,

Quote:

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I would strongly suggest some FL dies. You will be pretty mad if you screw up a hunt because a cartridge gets stuck. I think the neck sizing trick is much better situed to target shooting than hunting. For hunting, I would rather sacrafice a small amount of accuracy for reliability.

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The cases can be run through your N/S die to round out the necks and trim to the shortest lenght and used with out problems. The full sizeing Steve recommended will cause some initial case stretching and insure the cases are all uniform in size when you trim them. Uniformity is the key to accurate loads and as long as the case is under the max aol they are safe but not ideal. The trimming insures we have one variable controlled but, if the outer case geometetry isn`t the same from case to case you still don`t have uniformity. Fire forming will expand all your caces to the same diamentions and give the best fit in your chamber, neck sizeing formed brass doen`t disturb this fit and aides accuracy. In most factory hunting rifles how much the improvment is helpful in the field is questionable.

The n/s new cases should be just fine for your hunting and fire forming.

You don't have to go through all sorts of steps to make accurate ammo. In several rifles and single shot shot handguns I've been able to work up loads that will group 3 shots into 1/2-3/4" groups at 100 yards. That was achieved with off the shelf 2 die sets from RCBS, Redding and Lee. Cases were fl sized, trimmed to length, powder charges thrown, and bullets seated. I never weighed a case, cleaned up flash hole burrs, cut primer pockets, or checked a round for runout.

If you're trying to get the smallest possible groups, then I can see going to all that effort. If you're looking for reasonably accurate hunting ammo, with minimal load work up and time spent assembling ammo, then go that route.

The best advice I can give is start with bullets and powder known to be accurate in the caliber you are loading for. With that very important step behind you, use a load manual to work up on increasing powder charges to max levels. For a standard lead cored bullet, seat .015" off the lands. If one of the loads shows promise, repeat that load, and load some with slightly smaller and higher charges. If you still aren't quite happy, pick the powder charge that worked the best, then try varying seating depths, say .005", .015" and .025" off the lands.

Unless a gun is finicky, or just won't shoot, you should be able to take a known good powder and bullet and find a suitable load with only 30-40 rounds down range, sometimes less than 20 rounds. If that doesn't work, try a different bullet weight. If that don't work, have a good gunsmith look at the gun, or get a new gun.

BEFORE you trim them, run them all through a full-length resizing die!

Then trim them all to the length of the shortest case.

Make sure the "shortest case" is not an anomoly. If it, or a few others, are inordinately short toss them.

I've never used a comparator either. I remove the striker assy from the bolt (assuming a bolt gun), and then seat the first bullet way long. Mark the bullet, see when it engages the lands, then work the seater down until you get the bolt to just close, which will be zeroed to the lands. I then dial in the seater screw whatever is needed to get the distance off the lands I'm after. Say .015" off using a seater stem that is a 1/4-20 screw, I'll turn the screw in 108 degrees. I don't use a protractor to get that 108 deg either. If you have a micrometer seater then it's much easier.



I think many people go through alot of effort analizing their ammo assembly techniques for very little gain. If the gun is accurate, and you are using an accurate bullet and appropriate powder, you shouldn't have to go to alot of effort and steps to get a good load.



If I were loading for the 300 SAUM, I'd get a pound of RL-22, and a box each of 165 and 180 gr balistic tips. I'd start 4 gr under max for each bullet weight, and load up in 1 gr increments to max. Seat bullets .015" off, and go to the range. With those 30 bullets down range I'd expect at least one good group, and have a place to fine tune from.



If neither bullet grouped 1" or better for 3 shots at 100, I'd look at the scope and mount, my shooting technique, and the gun.



Forgot to mention, bullets with exposed lead tips tend to have a slight variance in COL. Don't worry about it. So long as you are getting the same stroke out of your press every time you seat a bullet, the bullet ogive will be set to the same location each time.



I've found with guns that if you get carried away measuring things, you'll convince yourself you have all sorts of reasons the gun won't shoot. If you cover the basics to assemble safe ammo in a consistant manner, and shoot consitantly, you'll get good groups. Going through all sorts of ammo measurements is only worth while if you are having a problem getting the gun to shoot, and are trying to troubleshoot the problem.

SOunds like what I've been waiting to hear! I loaded a few rounds with 180 grain Nosler Partitions, measured OAL and got all kinds of variance. A buddy of mine told me that I'd have to readjust the seater for each round to make them all the same, but that is not what I read here on the forums. I posted an AOL question some weeks ago and everyone said to get a bullet comparator to measure from the ogive each time. I determined that I needed my OAL to be 2.825 to be .015 off the lands. I loaded a cartridge to that dimension. The next one was long, the next short...you get the drift. So, now I'm trying to decide which comparator to buy. Based on everyone's recommendation, I planned on getting Stoney Point's comparator. I got a new catalog from Sinclair International and there is another one that fits on the caliper. Now, I'm unsure which comparator to get.

You make a great point though...I wouldn't even know where to find a bench competition. I'm just after a flat shooting, accurate hunting round from my 300 SAUM and 7mm Rem Mag.