Load development for my 20" 1:11 twist barrel .30-06 Sako 85 Bavarian Carbine / VX-2 1-4x20mm using 180gr bullets and IMR 4064. Might be better to stick with a medium burn rate powder for highest muzzle speeds with the shorter barrel.

180gr SST and 180gr TTSX using data from 7th edition Hornady Handbook. Safe in my particular rifle only.

Groups shown at 100 yards. Best accuracy with 46.0gr at about 2500 fps.

48.0gr -

Over the past 5 decades of reloading I burn many pounds of IMR4064 in 06 rifles.

quote:

My, what a dandy looking little rifle!

Rather like this rifle. Features a single set trigger.

Its always been a grand powder in the 3006..Jack O'Connor said so, that's good enough for me!! He said if a 30-06 won't shoot accurately with IMR4064 then the bedding was bad or the rifle was just stupid!!

I have a CZ550 fs that I restocked, it has as 20.5 inch barrel. I have settled on a load of 48.7 grains of IMR4064 in R-P brass with a 180 grain bullet. I do not get match groups, but for Hunting accuracy sup 2 inch groups for three shots at 100 yards is good enough. For accuracy 49.5 grains with a 165 grain BT, that's a shooter in most any 30-06 I've tried it in.

I'm using that 49.5gr load under a 150gr home swaged sierra upgrade bullet for deer hunting.


just an observation.
But.
that 20" barrel stuff seems like a lot of work to get what a 20" 358 win gets with even more bullet weight.

That was target load development. 220gr Sako factory loads if I take this rifle hunting to maximize performance on heavy game. These group not too bad, ~2425 fps muzzle speed.

i have found IMR4064 to be a great powder, been using it for many years, in 7MM-08 308 and the 30-06 with 150's and some 165's but most 165's and up I use one of the 4350 powders

Still to this day one of the best powders on the planet. It's even better with 165/150 grainers.

A few years ago after obtaining a Tikka T3 in 30.06 I develpoed a handload for the Barnes TTSX 130 gn. Hands down IMR 4064 was the best propellent tested. The best velocity, accuracy and consistency also by a clear margin. So much so that I confidently use this load for shots not exceeding 400 yards.

quote:

Might be better to stick with a medium burn rate powder for highest muzzle speeds with the shorter barrel.

Well, extensive testing has proven that the optimal powder burning speed is optimal in any "normal" length barrel from 16" to 30". A bit slower powder than IMR4064 might get you more velocity, but it will also get you more muzzle blast in your relatively short barrel and may not be as accurate.

If you are satisfied with your velocity and accuracy using 4064 then it will certainly generate a bit less anger at the muzzle than something like IMR 4350 or RL-22, which might generate more velocity at the expense of muzzle blast and perhaps accuracy.

Thinking to avoid Re19 for example. Need more barrel length to burn the extra 10 gr charge efficiently and would probably get a lower muzzle speed with my 20" barrel compared to using IMR 4064.

Maybe you should try RL-19 and RL-22 before you give up on it..Its a good powder..

LOng or short barrel IMR or H4831 will get more velocity and accuracy in most 30-06s..I used it for years but I used the old surplus stuff from WW2, that Jack O'Connor used..more velocity and less pressure..

I have a chronograph, in fact several of them, the old adage about fast powders in short tubes is pure unadulterated BS, just not so..4831 in a short tube of 20 or 18 inches beats all the rest for velocity time and time again, including 4320, 4064 and all the rest..

Today I use H414, its fast and its accurate and its safe and fills the case pretty well..I have not found anything better in that it meters so smooth and accurately..4831 is bad about metering and cuts grains as does 4350.. H414 and RL 19 does not do that it slicks thru the meter and is accurate as can be....

RL-22 is awesome for velocity in the 06 and Ive found it fast and accurate as well..Those that think otherwise just are not using enough of it!

Looking at the Hornady load data above, it takes 10 more grains of Re19 for example to get the same speeds for any IMR 4064 load listed. Clearly slower burn rate powders are less efficient.

Not seeing the advantage of burning 20% more powder to get the same muzzle speeds. That's about 25 less rounds per pound of Re19 compared to a pound of IMR 4064.

Loading books are deceiving, I only trust my chronographs, IMR-4064 is a super accurate powder and a good one, but for velocity it is far behind at proper pressures. It also tends to spike pressures at close to max loads.

Your last post of 2500 FPS with a 180 gr. bullet in your 30-06 along with photos should nix your post to me ..Lots of powders can get you 2700 FPS FS and some can get 2800 FPS with a 180 gr. bullet..Perticularly RL powders and H414 to name a few...

Check Hodgdon (24" barrel) -





Less muzzle speed with my 20" barrel. Also shows about 20% more slow burn rate powder needed to get about the same maximum muzzle speeds at near maximum pressure level as with IMR 4064. Not recommended of course but higher muzzle speeds than listed are certainly possible by an individual choosing to overload his rounds to exceed recommended maximum safe pressure levels.

Yes and Im one to do just that, have for years, Loading books are a joke as they fear law suits, and justly so in this country...

ON the other hand if one loads to max the 300 H&H will come right on the heels of a max 300 wby load, at about 60,000 PSI, fine for my pre 64 mod. 70s and 98 custom mausers..but unless one knows how to find max, its not advisable, I only speak for myself, but those are recognized 30-06 loads in many books..The 06 made its reputation with a 180 gr. bullet at 2700 FPS and the 300 holds another cup of powder..

I've been reloading for over a half-century and 4064 has always been a favorite for both velocity and accuracy in the non-magnum cartridges, from 6mm Remington through the .30/06 Springfield. That being said, my highest choreographed velocities, at what I feel are safe pressures with the .30/06 and the 165-grain bullets, have been with IMR-4831. These velocities were taken in M-70 Winchesters with 24-inch barrels.

When I first started reloading my 30-06 (over 50 years ago) I selected 4064 as it pretty much showed max velocity for all weight bullets. For me in practical usage that was a moot point. No way am I going to go hopping around sighting in different weight bullets and trying to remember which weight it is currently sighted in for. So I settled on 150 grain bullets as my favorite. Even used them on moose with great results. But the thing I always heard as 4350 is THE POWDER. I tried some and in my rifle 4064 was better. I use a fair amount of 4064.

Curious to see how Woodleigh 30 caliber 240gr PPSN bullets perform in my .30-06. Woodleigh load data lists Re22 providing highest muzzle speed.

Maximum Re22 charge does about 2275 fps muzzle speed from my 20" barrel rifle. About 100 fps less than listed. I expected 40 fps less at most. Test rifle barrel length isn't listed. Seems to support the idea that a longer barrel is needed to take full advantage of slow burn rate powders.

Neck-sized the brass and loaded Hornady 180gr RN. Improved accuracy. About as good as it gets.

Why do you expect 40 FPS less in your 20 inch gun..What you can expect in any rifle is more like 25 to 35 FPS per inch is the norm?

Loading books all show different loads per gr. of powder, that's because they play it overly safe, and because you have fast barrels and slow barrels and velocity can vari up to as much as a max of 100 fps, and some have claimed more, and again that depends on the powder one uses to some degree..

In my 30-06s I get the same velocity in my carbine mod. 54 carbine as I get in my 24 inch barrels with short cut 4831 and old surplus 4831, and that's 2700 fps on average..but I have one old Ruger that maxes out at 2800 FPS, and that load is listed in several books..I have about a dozen reloading books and the results vary greatly between all of them, so quoting reloading book results is a confusing and of little value, other than giving one a decent starting place..

240gr/Re22 load: assume 22" barrel so 2 x 20 fps per inch or 40 fps less expected. Actually 100 fps less. Slow burn rate powder in my short 20" barrel probably to blame.

Hornady load data: their 180gr RN bullet and IMR 4064. 22" barrel test rifle. Data shows about 2550 fps with 46.0 gr. For my 20" barrel knock off 2 x 20 fps per inch so about 2500 fps. Bang on, that's what I get.

Using a fast burning powder to get more velocity is a old wives tail...In my carbine 30-06 old WW2 surplus 4831 give me the highest velocity and least pressure, but its no more unless you get lucky....Try some RL-19, Rl-22 and H414,and you will get 24" barrel veloicity in most 30-06s has been my experience with a number of rifles in that caliber. My present mod. 70 pre 64 Fwt. and my Ruger tang safety shot the same as my Win mod. 54 carbine, that I recently sold unfortunately..I shot 150 and 180 gr. bullets only, until I switched to 200 gr. accubonds and never looked back..I use RL-19 and 22 with these bullets and get a full 2700 FPS hunting load, got more in testing but 2700 is the velocity I look for in 180s and 200s..

IMR 4064 is a great powder in the 30-06, I use more IMR 4895 because it throws better in my Dillion 550B powder horn.

These charges were thrown on the Dillion 55OB, but I do not recommend letting your ammunition sit around since 1988 before you get around to firing the stuff!









Gunpowder really starts to go bad with a vengeance when it gets to be 20 years old. Don't load ammunition and have it sit around unless you like tossing out perfectly good cases once they are fired.