I have used whatever unloved bullets up until now to firefrom Ackley cases but latest rifle is a barrel burner and would like to save barrel for real loads.
Have read in the past methods w/cornmeal, cream of wheat etc loads with parafin and fast burn rate powders as an alternative but have never tried. <p> What are
favorite recipes for such and why?

Have you borescoped and found any abrasion or other downsides to these methods?
Thank you

When I formed cases for my 375/338 I would start with 338 WM brass and use 12 grains of Unique and then fill up the case with cornmeal to the base of the neck. Then I would stuff a wad of tissue paper in the neck to hold everything together. Load the rifle and point it up and pull the trigger. I would get some strange looking necks that had to be trimmed but otherwise perfect cases. It beat trying to neck them up which for me resulted in a lot of split cases.
Never looked with a borescope but I had the rifle for 20 years and it shot as good at the end as it did the beginning.

Snowwolfe, if you are getting strange looking necks, try a grain or 2 more powder.

I fireformed some 6.5x284 lapua cases to 284 win this morning and I have done the same with 243 lapua cases and turned them into 7mm-08 cases.

I use almost the same method as Snowwolfe, i'm using about 11 grains of noble No 60 shotgun powder but any fast powder will do, you will have to experiment with the powder until you get perfectly formed cases, start with 10 grains.

I used rolled oats, groung up reasonably fine, just filled the case with it then sealed the necks with wax, but tissue will do fine, then its just a matter of firing them in your rifle.

You should get perfectly formed cases every time, if you aren't just increase the powder charge until you are.

I had a cartridge called the 22 Hot Stuff. 8mm mauser case necked to 224. I used 15 grains of Red Dot topped with cream of wheat or cornmeal and the neck topped off with parafin. Case loss was nonexistant.

Use really fast powders for fireforming. Don't use slow burners.

I use 700X or Red Dot too, but just with a cotton ball on top to hold the powder back.

quote:

Originally posted by STINGER:
I had a cartridge called the 22 Hot Stuff. 8mm mauser case necked to 224. I used 15 grains of Red Dot topped with cream of wheat or cornmeal and the neck topped off with parafin. Case loss was nonexistant.

Use really fast powders for fireforming. Don't use slow burners.

How would one go about fireforming a case from 8mm to 224?

Ultraman,

Here are my experiences with my 280 Ackley:

Initial FF was done with light charges of fast burning pistol powder. I used WW231 because I had a truckload of it. I used 10 grains and then went up to 12 grains because I was not getting a sharp shoulder all topped off with Cream-O-Wheat and held in place with a wax plug (tedious). I also tried with a square of toilet tissue on top of the wheat and that worked as well. I fired the loads slowly to not overheat the barrel and throat.

However, I found that after doing this procedure on three sets of cases and then using them to work up hunting loads I was getting significant case loss due to split necks/shoulder and in a number of cases I had incipient head separation even with mid range hunting loads.

I read somewhere (Handloader or one of the manuals) that FF with out a bullet jammed into to lands and therefore holding the case firmly against the bolt face that this type of loss was common. So I switched my procedure to FF using a starting load for the 280 Remington (not Ackley) of a middle burning rate powder and bulk Winchester or Remington bullets loaded long and into the rifling. I used them to practice for deer season and at the same time fire form cases.

Loads worked up buy this method have withstood as many as 7-8 loadings, some at or near max, and I have not lost one case since.

I’m sticking with FF with bullets. Hope that helps good luck.

Paul

I have fireformed quite few cases (typically AI type) with out bullets, and here is the technique I use:

Measure the volume of a fast burning powder that fills the case full (like Unique), and begin with 10% of that. You may have to increase the amount of powder just a bit, but do start on the low side.

Also, find out a fire-forming load that is going work in this manner, before preparing a lot of cases (I once prepared 50 cases for my 35 Whelen AI, but the load of powder was too weak, and I had to then start all over by emptying out those cases).

Pour in your powder, and then fill the case to the top with Couscous. It's a rice/wheat like grain that is just smaller than a BB, and hard like rice. It makes very uniform cases, and is cheap (and delicious!).

With the powder and couscous in place, take warmed parafin (and putting it under a heat lamp to soften it is the easiest way to do this), and pinch off a glob bigger than a pea, but smaller than a marble. Press this into the case mouth, wipe off the outside of the case, and you're ready to go.

Here's a secret I learned too: Don't try to make perfect shoulders with this technique.
It takes too much pressure to do so, and can make your cases split sooner than they would otherwise.

With the shoulders now formed, you can fire your full powered loads, just as you'd do with the perfect, sharp shoulders, and pressures will be identical to cases previously formed by a bullet.

Garrett

I just fire formed 100cases for my 280AI used 12/13grs of bulleye fill case with cream-o-wheat(use the box kind) then used tissue paper. I took 5 cases for load developement never had a problem with split necks. I use the same method for my 6mmAI and 338x280AI. Well good luck

I just finished forming 200 Fed cases for 22-250AI. 18gr. blue dot and some paper towel to plug the neck. Only 2 were not fully formed, and I think they may be ones that I fired without the rifle held vertically. I have used wax, corn meal, cream of wheat etc for Gibbs but this way was much simpler and cleaner.Good luck whatever way you choose. Mark

I just fireformed a bunch of .338 snipe-tacs from 408 Chey-tac using 25 grs. of bullseye, cream of wheat and some tissue paper to hold it in place.
Why do you guys elevate the muzzle? I don't understand the purpose. Mine came out perfect and I did'nt elevate the muzzle. I never lost a case.
I don't like fireforming like this but a full load is 142 grs. of H-50 BMG and a 300 gr. Sierra MK. Gets a little pricey on the powder consumption not to mention throat erosion. Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Ivan:

quote:

Originally posted by STINGER:
I had a cartridge called the 22 Hot Stuff. 8mm mauser case necked to 224. I used 15 grains of Red Dot topped with cream of wheat or cornmeal and the neck topped off with parafin. Case loss was nonexistant.

Use really fast powders for fireforming. Don't use slow burners.

How would one go about fireforming a case from 8mm to 224?

Well I can tell you it's a major PITA. First you size in a 30 cal die, then inside neck ream, then you size down to 7mm and inside neck ream, then you size down to 6,5 cal and inside neck ream, then you size down to 6mm, and inside neck ream, then size down to 224 and leave a false shoulder, just enough so the bolt closes under some pressure, then fireform your loads.

Were the efforts worth it? that depends. It did get 3600+ fps with a 80gr sierra.

However, that caliber is no longer in my inventory, I'm sure you'll understand why.I took that barrel and rechambered it to 22-250 AI. But I lost about 200fps doing so. It is still a great long range firearm for a 224. And the 22-250 AI doesn't burn as much powder.

I now form all of my 280 based wildcats with bullseye and COW. In my case my shoulder is moved forward to leave about a .25" neck. So I neck the brass up then form a false shoulder. Normal starting point is around 12% case capacity and then increase until the shoulder forms correctly.
A little rounded vs sharp is OK. The inner capacity is the same.

You can also do it without filler but the amount of powder is double or more.

I started out verticle thinking it would better center the case. Tried both ways and could see no difference in quality or failure.

I've also used pistol powder & COW to form .404jeffery cases from .375RUM cases. I use slower powder like 2400 or 4227, COW, paraffin plug & fire horizontally. NGarret's 10% rulle is valid. Makes a fine case, ready to load. Just be sure to clean the bbl. well before firing bullets.