I loaded some .30-06 cartridges just now. Hope to try them tomorrow. I`m not a very experienced handloader and need some input on a load.
The bullet is 165 grain Hornady Interbond. I used 58,0 grains of Vihtavouri N160. This is a safe load for other 165 grain bullets. The OAL with a 165 Sierra HPBT is 81,0mm according to the chart a looked up, and I automatically used the same length.
This turned out to be a compressed load, even if the chart stated that would happen with 59,0 grains+.
I got a little worried and measured my rifles max OAL for this bullet. It turned out to be 83,8-84,0mm. And I normally shortens that with 1-2mm to be on the safe side. But this is almost 3 mm shorter.

I`ve heard compressed loads are great as long as the powder is not crushed. I`m not sure on this, because I`ve never load compressed before. I heard kind of crushing when seating the bullet, but it can`t be much..

Is this a safe load anyway? Might be a stupid question, but I rather be on the safe side..
Thanks!

Anders, I would'nt worry about it, you can use up 61.5grs. N160 for a 165grain bullet. Compression is normal for alot cartridges, just try loading a 338Win. mag., even a light load may be compressed.

BTW, You've got a great bullet in that Interbond, loaded some last year, my "client" was happy with the 4 elk he got with it.
Jay

If you can hear the powder crunching when you seat the bullet or the case swells to much to chamber or the bullet pushes itself back out of the case, your excessivly compressed

Seriously, 1/2-3/4 up the neck, with stick powders, is no problem (I rarly work with ball powders, so I can't speak for them)

resonable compression of slow burning extruded or stick powder is usually not a problem. I'm not talking about compressing what already is an overload. The only exception to that I have found is the Notorious 7383.

Compressing ball powders can actually cause your primers to back out if over done. I've done this often experimenting with 5020. roger

quote:

I`ve heard compressed loads are great as long as the powder is not crushed.

That's more

The key is the weight.....don't put more grains in the case than the recipe calls for.....then compress all you want.....

Compressed powders are normal for many large cases.

Anders,

There is absolutely no problem with using compressed loads. In fact, I always try to make sure my optimum load is slightly com,pressed.

This only applies to stick powder, and not ball powders.

I have loaded ammo with the powder almost over flowing from the neck, and have never, ever had any problems with it.

A lot of potentially compressed loads can be aggitated - thump the side of the case gently - and the powder will settle a bit reducing or eliminating the amount of compression. Most stick powders respond to settling. Shake the case a bit and see if it helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Anders:
IThis turned out to be a compressed load, even if the chart stated that would happen with 59,0 grains+.

The observation (in the manual, probably) of when to expect a compressed load, totally depends on the brass you are using. Internal capacity of brass varies quite a lot, from manufacturer to manufacturer, and even (to a lesser degree) from lot to lot.

RWS brass, for one, usually has a pretty low internal capacity, but is otherwise very high quality brass. Winchester brass often has a fairly high internal capacity.

All of these variations (together with variations in chambers, bores, primers, powder lots etc etc), is the reason we start low and work up. Just too many variables to think of loading data as anything but recommendations.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by Old Elk Hunter:
A lot of potentially compressed loads can be aggitated - thump the side of the case gently - and the powder will settle a bit reducing or eliminating the amount of compression. Most stick powders respond to settling. Shake the case a bit and see if it helps.

I'll go one step further on this procedeure. Use of a long drop tube AND swirling the powder in the funnel can result in getting a couple extra grains,(depending on charge weight), of powder into a case. Dumping the powder straight into a case from a measure causes it to "bridge" or stack loosely. Or dumping straight into the middle of a funnel with a short drop tube. It even helps with ball powder to a lesser degree.

Loading for my 300 WSM, compressed charges are a fact of life. They shoot real well with no high pressure signs.

Exactly what grizz said. I use a 8" drop tube * "swirl" the powder into the case. This usually takes the powder level from the bottom of the meck to the middle of the shoulder. This reduces the amount of "crunching" when you seat the bullet.

Thanks for all your comments guys! I understand a bit better now. Sorry for my late reply. Have been away for a week - hunting! Hope this is a good excuse..

I tried my loads, and there were no problems whatsoever. I had just never loaded compressed before, and it made me insecure. Most of the loads shot pretty good. Here`s an example (3 shots @ 100m):

I must admit this was one of the better. But I will definetly try to fill the cases as much as possible later.

I shot a nice roebuck with this bullet during my hunt:


The compression was not the only thing that made me insecure. The OAL too. Can someone tell me a bit about bullet seating? I mean normally I measure the max OAL for a certain bullet in my rifle, then back of 1-2mm. And sometimes experiment a bit more.. But as I have read the pressure can rise if the bullet is seated near the max OAL (if the bullet thouches the rifling). How`s the effect on the opposit side of the scale. If you put the bullet to deap in the case. I would think that this makes the bullet harder to push out when the shot is fired - and then more pressure. But this might be a stupid assumption..

Starting the bullet jammed in the lands will raise the pressure. I normally start with the bullet touching the lands and work up my load then drop back in .005" increments until I find the "sweet spot" for that bullet.
Seating too deep will also raise pressure but the reason is you are reducing the case volume, noting to do with "harder" bullet tension. I don`t think seating deeper hurts much until you have gone quite a way in the case with the bullet. 0.10" deeper shouldn`t cause much rise and I doubt you`ll go that far.
The only problem with deeper seating and compressed loads is the possibility of the bullet moving if compressed too much. I`d suggest measuring the OAL a day or two after loading if you`ve shortened the load to any degree and if the bullet hasn`t moved you`re likely OK. I use 59 - 59.5 gr of IMR4350 under a 150 Hornady in my `06 (I`m NOT suggesting anyone try this load specially without working up. It is max in my gun and over the top in some manuals) and the powder has to be settled get it all in the case. The powder fills the case to the top of the mouth and the bullet crunches powder quite a bit when seated, but it stays put and pressures haven`t shown them selves yet. The bullet is seated ~.030 off the lands and I never noticed any change in pressure signs while changing OAL from touching.

That's a very accurate assesment. Seating to a shorter OAL in an established load will increase pressure. If that load is at or near max pressure, then you'd be at risk of over pressure. This is because you are making the combustion chamber smaller, which raises the pressure. Most of the time you're restricted by magazine length as to where your max OAL is.

Single loaded shells in a bolt gun or single shot rifles can seat anywhere they find their optimum seating depth in relation to the rifling.

Hey Anders

There are a few things that will help reduce powder compression or its effects.

First, if you're dealing with new cases, they will not have as much case capacity as fired cases. So you will normally gain 1 to 2 grains of powder capacity using fire formed cases.

Next, use the drop tubes or just tap the cases as suggested to settle the powder. I use a electric metal etcher that vibrates real fast and hold the side of it against the case with my finger over the top and it will settle the powder about 2 grains worth.

If you're worried about the compression pushing the bullet back out, then get a Lee Factory Crimp Die and put a light crimp on the bullet and it will keep that from happening.

Last, it's best to get a measuring device to determine your seating depth so the bullet will not be too far or too close to the lands. Stoney Point OAL gauges or good, but the best I've found is the Sinclair tool. There are also ways to determine this with available cleaning rods or wooden dowels which can be explained to you here if you want to know. The book OAL is generic and your gun has its own throat depth and seating depth.

WHen loading black powder many loads are compressed and there is the added problem of avoiding damage to the base of cast bullets. I get the necessary compression by holding an electric clipper against the loading block. It will vibrate the whole block and shorten the powder column in the cases. Some guys use long drop tubes of 24 to 30 inches or special compression plugs.

Most of the times I don`t work close to max powder charge anyway. Just never felt like experimenting to much, and also thought it wouldn`t add to much velocity or energy, just added pressure on the guns.
I have no reason to set the bullets very deap. It will only leave me with less room for powder.

Most of the times I use cases that have been shot quite a few times.
I will use the shaking method and buy a drop tube when loading compressed the next time.. The load I talked about probably don`t need to be compressed at all.

Have measured OAL with cleaning rod and a marker. Don`t know how accurate this is, but ok I guess.. I measured the magazine as well. It will take cartridges up to 87,5mm. Max OAL with the 165 Interbond was appr. 84,0mm.
Only heavy bullets will probably get close to max magazine length..

Measured the OAL again today. Still the same length, so they haven`t been pushed out. I guess the compressions is very gentle in this case..

Thanks for your help everyone! I learned some new things..

One thing that gives you a little extra room is the H4831SC which is a short cut powder and settles better in the case. The H4350 EXT is also a shorter powder. The H4350 EXT may work better in the 30-06. The H4831SC is very slow will take a few more grains.

Good Luck

Thanks for the tip Dwight, even though I`m not sure Hodgon powders is readily avail in Norway. I`ll check!