I am reloading for my 25-06. I neck down rws 270 cases, The problem I am having is that the head space is erratic!
Even once fired and neck sized there seems to be a huge variation some fit,some fit slack, some don't fit at all! I am using the lee neck sizing die, should i use something else?
Is there something like a case that will fit into a full length die and can set the head space exact?
I am trying to get the head space to within 2 thou
is that asking to much!!!!

many thanks
Griff

The length of the .270 case is shorter from the base to the beginning of the neck than a .25-06.

There is no way to effenciently change that dimension other than blowing out the case with fireforming loads.

Also, the case OAL of the .25-06 is shorter than the .270.

Steve is correct; the brass you are using is longer.

I hope you have the clearances to shoot that brass safely. Or atlest trimmed it to your fire arm.

If not, you could and probably will be seeing some unexpected pressures.

Now lets say your firearm is safe to shoot with that brass. My thoughts are you are starting with the shoulder moved back a bit more than you should be.
What might be happening is the case is being moved forward when the firing pin smacks it. Then the brass swells up, sticking to the chamber walls, and creates a short version of your actual chamber

When necking down some brass, make sure there is a slight bit of bolt pressure to ensure case is set in your chamber. In all, you should be fire forming the brass to your chamber before making full house loads.

I hope this made a little sense.

Mauserkid .

Since the 270 has a shorter shoulder, you should EXPAND the necks first to 30 caliber, then neck back down to 25 caliber; letting you form a small shoulder at the correct position. This will give you the correct headspace for fire-forming the brass. With all of this working of the neck you may want to consider annealing the neck/shoulder area after doing your fire-forming.

I have now and have had several 25-06's and used 30-06, 270 and 280 cases to make brass. The best advice I can give you is just to buy 25-06 brass or shoot loaded ammo to get your brass. There are a lot of pitfalls you can get into if you haven't much experience dealing with wildcats and have learned what to look for and how to keep from wasting yourself and your rifle.

The other thing to do is use 280 brass because it is 0.050" longer overall and the shoulder is 0.050" farther forward. When you reform a 28o case in a 25-06 sizing die you can move the shoulder back that 0.050" and make a new shoulder correct for 25-06. You can set minimum headspace by backing out your sizing die and sizing a case,try it in your rifle. Turn the sizer down a 1/16 turn, try again and keep doing this until the bolt just closes on the case. Then load with a midlevel load and go shooting. The cases will be perfectly formed and the headspace will be correct. Leave your sizer set at that point and you will just bump the shoulder back with the next reloading.

270 brass and 30-06 both have a 0.383" neck length but 25-06 has a 0.308" neck length so normaly all you have to do is resize like I suggested above and you won't have any problems.

The next thing to do is use a full length sizer to do the resizing. Most neck sizers DO NOT touch the case shoulder correctly if at all and they are designed that way for a purpose. All neck sizing dies do is resize the neck. Get a full length sizer body to make your cases with.

You can set your head space by using Redding Competition Shell Holders. The are 0.002" to 0.010" thicker than standard shell holders and in 0.002" increments, 5 shell holders.

Get a set of Stoney Headspace gauges, a good caliper, a ball micrometer for measuring the neck walls and a good "tenth" reading micrometer. I notice you're from Scotland. I'm scots decendent and tight as a tick with my "brass" but when you get into using other than original caliber cases you can loose a lot more than you can save if you're not careful.

RWS has thicker necks also, at least all that I have measured and when you resize down that extra brass has to go somewhen and it usually goes into making a thicker neckwall. That means you will have to ream or turn the necks otherwise the neck will be too thick either to go into the chamber or if it does it might not have enough clearance to release the bullet and you can stick a bolt or blow up an action depending on a lot of factors.

My procedure when checking headspace is to use a Stoney gauge. Measure a factory loaded case, then fire that case and measure it again. The difference is the amount of headspace you have minus the springback of the case. I have found from almost no headspace to over 0.015" in my rifles. Some are commercial and some are wildcats. I pick a Redding Competition shell holder that equals the amount of difference between the two measurments. My newest NEF 223 is 0.006" so I use a 0.006" shell holder. I resized the same case and loaded and fired it again. Remeasured and the headspace was 0.001", just right for what I want. In a larger caliber hunting rifle I would go with 0.002" to 0.004" just to have some slack.

I have my Rem Sendero 25-06 set at zero headspace for 75gr VMax and the bolt closes snugly on a reloaded case. 0.004" on 115 gr Nosler Partitions and the bolt drops of its own weight almost.

You didn't give much information on how knowledgable you are or how much experience you have but from the information you did give I would suspect you may be a new comer or trying to save money the wrong way. Next post give us a little more insight and how you went about the process and someone will be able to get your closer to your goal. A 25-06 was one of the first varminters where I got in way over my head REALLY fast and stuck a bolt on a Rem 700. Had to send it back to the factory for a new bolt head. The problem that caused it was just resizing a 30-06 military case and not knowing enough to turn the neck, then loading it at the max end of the scale and not seating the bullet deep enough all because I didn't have the necessary tools to do the job. Use the search function to look for more information. There is a lot available in regards to just what you want to know and I have read several ways to get there that I hadn't though of. I've been doing this thing for over 40 years and I learn a new thing or two every time I come to this site. Good Luck

Makatak

Hi guys,
thanks for all the info!!
after reading the replies decided to bin the 270 cases and just stick with my federal 2506 cases. However after doing some investigation discovered that the 270 cases are in fact identical to the 2506 apart from the neck diameter.
both shoulders start @ 1.949" and are 17.3
degrees. the case is only 46 thou longer and is trimmed as a matter of course.the neck wall thickness is thicker on a 2506 by 2 thou!
the shoulder is obviously going to shorter on the 270 because of the neck dia!! the difference between the 270 & 2506 shoulder length is 29 thou
this will equal itself out when necking down to 257.
unless i am not getting the big picture here what is the difference.
all dimensions are from sierra load from a disk!

many thanks
Griff

Griff: I'm afraid you've gotten some confusing, and confused advice. Your problem is using a neck-sizing die, and I'm surprised you could make brass with it that would chamber at all. You must use a full-length sizing die.

The .270 case makes a perfect basis for a .25-06. Set up a FL die backed off of the shellholder by .1" or so. Resize a (properly trimmed) .270 case by progressively screwing the FL die down until the case enters your gun's chamber with still a bit of resistance as you turn the bolt down. Your gun will now be headspacing perfectly on the false shoulder created at the juncture of the old .277 neck with the new .257 neck.

After finding the right setting for your FL die and locking it there, you may want to resize your brass first, then trim to proper length for better consistency.

You may use this method with .270, .280, .30/06, with equal success. Even if your .25-06 chamber is excessively long in the base-to-shoulder dimension, this method will give you perfect (tight) headspace every time. And if you have such a long chamber, you are MUCH better off starting with brass other than .25-06, which will have excessive headspace and exhibit excessive stretching on the first firing.

Hi guys,
I must apologise to you all! I just looked at the original post and realised that The information was not explicit enough, I mean't to say that I was full length sizing on the initial neck down and neck sizing after first firing! but still getting erratic results regarding head spacing.
I am using lee dies in a rs5, is it possible that when i full length size, on the return stroke the the case is being stretched by the expander.
I have polished the expander to a mirror finish on several occasions, to try and eliminate the pull on the case.

thanks
griff

Griff
I'm not quite understanding what you mean by "erratic results on headspacing". Neck sizing dies don't touch the case shoulder so if the case is already too long to fit the chamber you're not getting where you want to go by using one.

Full length resize the long cases with all the slop taken out of the press linkage, screw the die down beyond the overcenter point by at least one turn. Then try it in your chamber to see if the bolt closes. I would also take out the decapping stem so that isn't a factor.

Once you get the cases to fit your chamber then you can put the decapping stem back in and resize only enough to open the neck mouth back up so a flat base bullet will enter. The new Lee dies have a tapered expander that work great as do Hornady New Dimention dies. I have also NOT used the expander and seated a boattail bullet which will act as an expander with good results.

I would like a deeper description of how you went about doing what you did so I can understand where you started having problems. I've make 25-06 cases from 30-06, 270, and 280 and hardly ever had any problems using a full length sizer and usually only one pass through the die. I made 100 25-06 cases from Lapua 30-06 brass for my new Sendero just a few months ago just the way I described it in my last post and I'm doing load development right now. So far, I haven't found any problems with the fireformed brass and the headspace keeps coming up what I said it was. I just got back for my range so I haven't measured any of todays MT's but my guess from the target results I won't find anything amiss.

I can understand your frustration because I've been there and done that. There is a lot of secret knowledge that isn't really so secret, just information learned over many years and if I can't help you there are just about 2 million, more or less, loaders out there that know tons more than I, that can help you.

I also really advocate buying a set of Stoney headspace and bullet gauges. I've made most of my gauges out of aluminum and steel just to do what the Stoney thingys do and have drawers full of them. As soon as I saw the Stoney stuff I ordered both sets and I guarantee they are a lot easier to use. They take the guess work out of any kind of wildcatting or case making. The same with the Redding Competition shell holders. I have another drawer with shell holders I've milled off and soldered and epoxied shims to just to get the headspace I wanted from chambers that were cut too long or too short. I also have dies with a few thou ground off the bottom and shims to raise the dies a specific distance. The new toys make reloading today a lot easier,safer and more accurate than the way it was done in yesteryear.

Learning leads to experience and experience is nothing more that doing.

Makatak

Hi Gungadin99
I will run through the sequence of events.
Got given a bucket full of RWS 270 cases (great quality).
Full length resized.
then trimmed down to size.
Took firing pin and extractor pin out.
put in cases till it was easy to close bolt!
one of the problems may be that the rs5 goes over centre when sizing and have noticed that the shell holder makes contact with die?
have been told that this should not be a problem!!!
once fired I use a lee neck sizing die,could it be that the neck does not get sized all the way to the shoulder. the only adjustment if this was the case is to grind off the bottom of the sliding collet within the die, unless there is another way?

many thanks again

Griff