I am looking at the Swift line of bullets for my 300wm and 300rum.
I have not used the Sciroccos on game but the 300rum loved them at the range. They were 150gr. factory loads.
I will be hunting mulies this year and Ive heard great things about their performance.
180gr. bullet min. is mandatory.
Powders???? Loads?????
Thanks in advance. I just loaded some 180gr. Match Kings w/ RL22 and RL25 to try this weekend.
Great site by the way..

Im a big fan of the sciroccos to.I shot two antelopes last year with a 150 gr scirocco and that was the most damage that I have ever seen from any bullet.

I shot 4 whitetails with 270WSM and 130 Sciroccos and had great success. One recovered bullet from a quartering shot was mushroomed perfectly and retained 110gr of weight. All 4 deer dropped and flopped. I think these are a great compromise between Ballistic Tips and Partitions.

I have used balistic tip for years and I have never lost a deer.But..They haven't showed me the damage like the sciroccos have.I'm going to load some sciroccos for hunting season next year.I just wish they would drop there price some.$45.00 is rather steep.

Why is the 180 bullet mandatory, and who said it is?? That is rediculous when the 165 grain bullet is the perfect bullet weight for most any game animal from the 300 Win Mag or the 300 RUM. If I were going with my 300 Win Mag I would use the 165 grain bullet or I would not go to that state with that outfitter. My load with H-4831 and the 165 grian bullet gives me 1/2" three shot groups at 100 yards.

In my view the word premium bullet means only one thing, more money per bullet, even benchrest bullets cost much less. Sierra, Hornaday, Speer make fine hunting bullets that are very accurate and do the job. Lets face it fellows, a bullet is made of a lead core and a copper jacket. Weather that bullet is premium or a less expensive Sierra, Hornaday, or Speer hunting bullet. The two compartment Nosler partition bullet is the exception by virtue to it's two compatment construction. Shot placement with a well constructed lead core, copper jacketed hunting bullet is the key to any hunters game getting skills. If you think you need to pay two or three times more for your hunting bullets then go for it. It is nothing more than a head game by the bullet maker. Just as many game animals are wounded and lost by those so called premium bullets as the regular less expensive bullets made by Sierra, hornaday, or Speer. That is due to poor shot placement and the hunter not knowing his accuracy limits with his hunting rifle of choice.

Some solid copper bullet are now on the market but care must be taken when shooting them or serious damage can occur when they are not seated properly in the case.

Reloader66,

I like the magnum cartridges for their ability to produce good trajectories with heavier bullets.

I know a guy who loads .300 Win Mag for himself and his shooting buddy. They are always complaining about 150 grain bullets blowing up on hogs at 40 yards. I told them to move up to 200 grain bullets, but they refuse -- they are stuck on fast velocity numbers from the reloading manual. I am much more interested in what the bullet is doing in the animal in the way of penetration.

The premium bullets generally let you get equivalent penetration with what has been called "one size lighter bullet". So you can shoot 150 grain premiums instead of 180 grain regulars but get the same penetration. The premium bullets have real value -- I have seen trophy hunts where the ability to take a shot that cheaper bullets would not allow saved the day. Or at least meant getting the animal.

I was not aware that seating a copper monolithic bullet had a danger zone. Can you amplify on your closing comment please?

jim dodd

Reloader66,

"Some solid copper bullet are now on the market but care must be taken when shooting them or serious damage can occur when they are not seated properly in the case."

Please elaborate, I am unsure what you mean with this statement.

Reloader, I feel the same way you do, but thats the deal so to speak, and those are the terms I agreed to.
Iam not going to complain though. And I realize the guy probably wants to make sure the animals die as quickly as possible. This guy seems to know what he's doing and Iam going to honor his wishes.
Iam not about to blow a great hunt on prime real estate, arguing over a few grains of bullet.
Thanks for your response though....

I don't like Sciroccos, and this is why:

http://www.contender-g2.com/bulletcp1.jpg

The bullets are, from left to right, 7mm 160 failsafe, 7mm 140 failsafe, 7mm 140 partition, and 7mm 150 Scirocco. These were fired through milk jugs of water. As you can see, the Scirocco nearly peeled itself completely back. It lost the most weight, and had the least penetration.

I do like the accuracy of the Scirocco, but I will not use them on game larger than a deer.

Which is exactly why Nosler made the Accubonds heavier and (the rumor is) tougher. They are designed for the big magnums. They say they're penetrating the same as Partitions but making a bigger hole along the way....

Well I thank you all for this as it seems I have found the flat shooting general purpose UK bullet I wanted for my 7x57. I have a sample of 20 from a friend and will get loading!

For Mule deer and smaller, don't waste your money on the Super Premiums, particularly if ranges exceed 100 yards as mule deer hunting is apt to be. As much as I disdain Sierras as a hunting bullet, they work great on deer. Sorry but I disagree strongly with the 165 concept being ideal for a 300 anything. 30.06 yes,but not the 300. jorge

The Swift Scirocco's are designed to have a very high ballistic coefficent and to open at very low impact velocities, like 1600 fps., and still hold together. They work as advertised. I saw one that was dug out of a tough critter that was less than 1/3 of it's lenth. But it still weighed 146 of it's original 180 grs. The impact velocity was probably about 2600 fps.
The argument that you don't need one for a magnum is true to a point. Any .300 Magnum has more than enough velocity and energy to kill Mule Deer at any half reasonable range. I'vew seen this many times. But they will destroy conventional bullets if their impact velocity is 2800 fps. or higher. Rarely do they do anything other than slam the deer down, but it can happen. I've seen that too.
Frankly, I like the Nosler Partition for these rounds. They are cheaper and hold enough weight to work at any angle you will shoot a deer. But, I'd have a hard time arguing you'd get much better performance on deer than a standard Hornady, or Sierra. I wouldn't however, use a boatail design. The flat base bullets hold their cores better. E

My Scirroco experience is limited to the 180gr for elk out of my .300 H&H and the 150's for deer in a pair of .280's ,one a .280 AI.

Every deer hit, staggered a few yds and died. All three were mature whitetail bucks.Distances were all 150-200 yds. All heart/lung shots with no bullets recovered.

On elk I killed a bull and a friend finished off a wounded bull with the 180's. Both showed very deep penetration with good weight retention.

As far as the premiums vs standard core argument; I don't think that for deer it makes much difference. Of all the deer I have ever shot I only lost one and that was one foolishly shot with a .223 rem that exploded on his shoulder. He was taken a short time later by another hunter so I was able to see the wound. All the rest taken with 7mm-08's up to .300 mags have ALL died in short order with minimal tracking ever required, if at all. Deer IMHO are not too tough. As long as its a medium to a heavy for caliber bullet most anything will work well. PLACEMENT is the key.

Elk are another situation. I believe that premiums DO penetrate a bit better, DO hold together better, so thats what I use. I consider a slightly heavier premium as cheap insurance when I go after elk. I generaly use 180's in a thirty caliber and 160's or 175's in the sevens.
I kill one every year so do have a little experience with elk.

Its a free Country use what you want. Personally I like partitions for about everything as I know from experience just what and what they will not do. The few extra nickels versus a standard don't bother me.

FN in MT

Frank, I might try the Swift A Frame for elk, Ive heard they are a wiched big game bullet..
Thanks to all who replied and Iam sure glad I found this infornative site...

i went to africa this fall and took 11 animals with my 300 win mag and 180 scirriocos. they did just fine on animals blesbok and smaller. i shot a gemsbok at 140yds right on the shoulder we watched and waited for it to drop as it hobbled off and i then shot it in the neck. the bullet broke its shoulder and disengrated and never made it to the boiler room. same story red hartebeest. i started taking animals in the ribs becuause of this. i will never use anything other than a frame, tbbc etc again. scirrocos are light thin skin animal bullets and not to be driven to warp speed especially with an ultra mag.. my 2 cents

alaskadude, what kind of accuracy can one expect from the A frame, Ive not shot it.
Could the A frame be the "magic" bullet for all western game??? Elk, mulies, moose???
sorry for my previous spelling errors, I meant informative not infornative!!

There is a segment of the hunting faternity that likes the 150 and 165 gr. bullets in the 30 cal magnums, they like to see total destruction of both shoulder or more and that is how they judge a bullets effectiveness..They get instant kills that are a wonder of electrocution plus....they also waste a LOT of meat for no reason, and bruise the rest, making a real sloppy bloody mess out of a fine game animal, perhaps that is not important to this group of shooters. They make claims that if you shoot them through the ribs then no meat is damaged, but that is not always the case and I will vouch for that, it is rather the exception, unless you take no shot but perfect broadside shots at known positive ranges in which case you may as well use a 222 or 30-30.

I have used all the 30 caliber bullets and most of the weights and I settled on the 200 gr. Nosler in my 300 H&H and 300 Win mags...They just flat perform and don't destroy the animal in the performance. I like the 180 Noslers in the .308 and 06 for the same reason...

Perhaps they don't slam dunk the animal, but they always leave a blood trail that a blind man can follow and the animal makes few tracks and one can eat to within 3 inches of the hole, and the rest is clean and not blood shot all to hell....

That is something we should all take into consideration...

For me, the point of having a fire & brimstone magnum is to shoot bigger bullets faster than you can in a "standard" case. For the .300 mags, the 180gr is a hard to beat comp. btwn. light 150-165gr & the burly 200gr. I haven't used the SCiroccos, I have always had great luck w/ the Nosler Part. Listen to Frank N. & go 180gr.

[ 03-03-2003, 05:28: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

mark stafford,

my brother is the guru on the a-frames and he gets 1 inch groups easily with a number of different calibers from 416 to 300. hes shot a 10.5 ft brownie with them and lots of other alaskan stuff with excellent performance and never had a failure. i like the trophy bonded better because it seems to mushroom more and have jagged edges instead of real smooth on the a-frame. both kill the animal very dead. i just cant shoot the same as my brother, then we wouldnt have anything to argue about around the fire. when i saw swifts ad for 75% retention for the scirocco, (forget about shooting a 300plus animal on the shoulder with them), i thought it would hold up better but its doesnt. hope it helps jeff

ps i recovered a few of these sciroccos and they were more like 50% retention when i found them