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Quote: Why did I know that mentioning fine customs and Wally world rifles would warrant an emphatic rebuttle.  Im sure you are very qualified in many ways Allan and Im trying to respect that. But you are NOT qualified to lecture me about the "real world". I got news for you pal, you are a minority, not the majority. And you STILL need to realize the difference between your OPINION and the facts. I wasnt putting down fine customs, I happen to like them. I was simply pointing out a paralell in your flawed logic. Have a nice day. And by the way, your OPINION has much more merit when you stay away from the petty personal attacks. | |||
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Quote: I dont think that anyone has ever suggested that going the AI route is effective on everything it is tried on and yes P.O. did admit that not all of them were a good idea. But if they were all failures he would have been equally honest. They were NOT all failures. Its mighty easy to look back and criticize the deceased for what they may or may not have been, it might be interesting to see what some of his critics could have made of themselves in his day and age. Parker Ackley was a lot of things, but where cartridges are concerned the one thing that he was above all is practical. He knew what it took to get the job done and he spoke out about it. Im sure that in this magnum crazed era that some of the criticizm he now draws is because of his opinions in this area. To bad he's not still around to answer to his critics. | |||
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vapodog, Quote: Trust me on this, IT AIN'T EASY TO BE, NOT A POLITICALLY CORRECT SPEAKING MORON! Having said that, I would much rather deal with straight shooters who speak the truth in a terse and direct manner than the flowery BSing PC speakers! So I speak that way to others, since that is how I wish to be spoken to. That doesn't mean that I have to divulge disgusting detail to support everything I say though. That would take all the fun out of it.  Besides that I already have a 404 Jeffery "Improved". It is called a 416 Rigby!!  If I wanted a 404 Jeffery I would get a 404 Jeffery and love it for what it is, A 404 JEFFERY! I'll wager if AR were to give away a free buffalo hunt, based upon a popular vote of the members, in which the hunter had to use their BARE HANDS, I would win HANDS DOWN! What do you think?ASS_CLOWN | |||
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AC,..which part of my description of what some "experts" here (loosely used term) would consider to be too high a pressure remains an enigma to you? I pre-stated that,..but in your haste to prove your OPINION, you must have missed that statement. Also,..the shoulder angle of mine (40 degrees) makes for a much firmer bolt face to case head contact and simultaneaously shoulder to chamber contact. This in turn can reduce bearing surface to land variances, and therefore produce lower ES and SD numbers. This is only my EXPERIENCE with 3 converted guns (all converted from the original parent caliber) Oh yeas,..and if you think that significantly decreasing brass flow, is due to something OTHER THAN a 40degree shoulder,..even when I am ADMITTEDLY running HIGH pressures in them,..and they are lasting longer than the parent cases were,..well.... you have been weighed, you have been measured,..and you have been found lacking,... also Ackleys work becomes even more credible with the double base powders of today (RL22, RL25, H1000, 7828 etc). The sharp shoulder and heavy bullets will yield great increases over the parent caliber,..this was one of the theories ackley had,..and today the new powders with slower burn rates and long heavy pills make the ackley rigs come alive. If I can get 3100fps froma 140gr a-max in a 6.5-06AI and a 26" 1:8 tube while still having tight primer pockets after 10firings at that MV,..that pretty much takes care of any pressure concerns I might have. Your text books I am sure will disagree,..but those who can do,.those who can't try to teach. Never have you seen me refer to ackelys works as original concepts either,..he took the principle of the sharp angle and minimal taper and transferred it to the smaller bore cases. Those were the only cases like that (other than several other wildcatters) until the WSM's SAUM,s and RUM's. So like it or not,..he and the aformentioned other wildcatters were responsible for starting much of the design work on many of todays commercial loadings. YMMV,..but who cares  Also,..Kenny Jarret's favorite all time caliber (drum roll) 280Ackley Improved!! until your fieldtrip to the science section of the library or internet sites has yielded the knowledge and respect that Mr. Jarret enjoys, your probably better off giving your internal balistics seminars at the local middle school,..cause the professionals I have come into contact with,,(you know,..guys who are in the business of gunsmithing and benchrest shooting) care not what sources you can quote or what your comprehension of physics yields. Of all of the Ackley cailbers I have loaded for or owned,..none have ever been harder on brass,..nor slower in MV. Found your way from the backyard yet? | |||
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Yes he is, about $200 a barrel, I believe. He has 2 Pratt& Whitney boring machines, visable as you enter the shop. I found it amusing to watch them operate, they cut a groove and then index to the next one automatically, pretty neat when you consider that they are over a 100 years old. Stepchild | |||
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JustC, Let me ask you a question, what AI chamberings are you using? My 30-30 unimproved will do what the AI "improvement" will do! My 30-06, again unimproved, will do what the AI "improvement" will do! My 416 Rigby unimproved with do what the "improved" (aka 416 Weatherby) will do!! Shall we continue the story boringly consistent? What does that mean Einstein, or would you need to contact Jarrett for the answer? The laws of physics are precisely that, LAWS, which cannot be bent, tweaked, compromised, broken, etc, etc. I could care less what you and your sources claim in opinionated DESIRE/FANTASY. I deal with LAWS of PHYSICS NOT opinions! By the way, every one of your chambering comments means ONE thing TIGHT CHAMBER, it really has NOTHING to do with the shoulder angle. Here let me spell it out for you in simple terms: Tight concentric chamber = accuracy & brass life IMRPOVEMENT Most of your rantings are precisely that, rantings. Pathetic, truly pathetic rantings at that. Kinda like the 45-70 guys claiming the 45-70 will out do a 458 Lott! Keep it up, though it is very, repeat, VERY funny to read. By the way, the experts we are discussing here are SAAMI and CIP. Do you have a clue who these two ORGANIZATIONS are? ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Stepchild2, Oh crap now you have gone and done it!!! Thanks for that information I now NEED to do something real bad! Is Al Siegrist still at: 8752 Turtle Rd, in Whittemore Michigan? Number still (989) 873-3929? Thanks again, ASS_CLOWN | |||
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JustC, Quote: Not knowing what you actual recipe, but using an ~ 110% compressed load with a ball powder in your list I came up with a chamber pressure for your 6.5-06 load in the 68ksi to 70 ksi range. This is below yield in most cartridge brass for the '06 case head so I am NOT surprised that have not had "loose" primers after 10 firings. However, the SAAMI maximum pressure for the '06 is 60 ksi and the SAAMI maximum pressure for the 270 Win is 62 ksi. You are simply achieving higher muzzle velocity BY INCREASING CHAMBER PRESSURE! Which simply means you are using the safety margin that SAAMI put into their maximum pressure specifications. Your rifle also undoubtedly has a nice TIGHT AND CONCENTRIC chamber, since you say it is both accurate and provides superior brass life. ASS_CLOWN | |||
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That's right. The man has his poop in a group when it comes to Machining/ Gunsmithing. Another Gunsmith closer to you, and also very well qualified is Bruce Mc Arthur/ Flint& Frizzen Gun Shop, Dixie Hwy, Clarkston 248-625-3333. No reboaring there though. Ask Tailgunner about his talent. Stepchild | |||
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AC His address may be Whittemore, but you have to go through "downtown" Prescott to get to his place (the road dosn't go through). | |||
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AC,..I have gotten to over 3200fps with that caliber/rifle (RL22) but decided that even though no pressure sign was present,..I would back it down a few grains. I know that PacNor SS select match is a fast tube,..but not that fast. BTW,..anything under .0002" is the only acceptable tolerances my smith will allow the rig to leave with,..anything else, and it's redone or new components are ordered and the >.0002" parts are returned to the manuf. His 300RUM tube on my light gun went 1.980" at 600yds in the wind (although I don't do that well each time I compete) | |||
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stepchild2, The rebore is the quintessential part of the NEED. I am wanting a 0.458 bore "30-06" (instead of a .416" bore). ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Quote:< !--color--> I wish I had time. nice rifle.95 winchester? I used to drink jack also.I drank mine straight up,though. as for smokeless being an explosive If blackpowder is burned in open air it combusts instantly,smokeless burns rather loudly,but much slower,it does not explode unless confined,maybe not even then.I think that is what ALF said.As for my knowledge being pathetic,hey,Im just here for entertainment. | |||
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jb, Quote: M1895 Winchester is correct The Jack is straight, there is NO other way to properly consume Tennessee whiskey, Bourbon, or Single Malt!! Heck I am lazy I buy it by the 1.75 liter bottle, tear out the "built in pourer" and drink it straight out of the bottle so I don't have any dishes to do!! Smokeless burns mighty fast in the open, have you ever actually burned any? Bout the same as BP, but then I didn't get the stopwatch out or anything. It DOES take considerably more energy to IGNITE smokeless powder than BP. Alf was referring to the speed of the pressure wave (which corresponds to the flame front propagation by the way) (sub verses super sonic). Sub sonic needs a container to become explosive. Guess what, most firearms chambers/barrels make mighty nice containers for the few milliseconds it takes to detonate a bomb. You are providing some excellent entertainment, THANK YOU!! ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Al Siegrist is one of the best gunsmith's that ever walked. He can do anything and everything, including making barrels. He made a 284 Winchester barrel for me that flat shoots as good as any of the top barrel makers. He has built a dozen rifles over the last 20 years for me, plus doing repairs and upgrades to another dozen. And, I've had rifles built by many other rifle makers including P.O.Ackley and both of the Hart's. Al's work is as good as it gets. And, he is a brilliant man to boot. I don't go to other gunsmiths except for very special work, like making a Swindlehurst action, which I had George Kelbly build for me. Al doesn't have to advertise, as people who have ever had work done by him, never go anywhere else. Donald | |||
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Stop it, or I will end up in divorce court, which will slow down the entire process! I must continue to tell myself "patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue, it can wait a couple months". ASS_CLOWN | |||
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Whenever I have burned smokeless in open air,it just makes a loud whooshing sound with flames about 7 ft tall.Bp goes up in a giant mushroom cloud with no duration to the burn.it just goes "whump" and its over. "Sub sonic needs a container to become explosive" would seem to fit. Isnt the burn rate of bp,the energy, the same in a rifle barrel or in the open?Smokeless is considerably slower in the open.But much faster when confined. Also ,if smokeless explodes in a rifle barrel,isnt this the phenomenon known as detonation,where large overbore cartridges when loaded down with slow burning powder for some reason will generate much higher than normal pressure and destroy the arm in question? | |||
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I hate all, you wild cat hatter's Why cause I'm afriade your right.I love my 6x284 with its big BIG Hart varmint heavy HEAVY BBL.First varmint hunt I went on I had some superduep loads for it.Another guy had a 243 Sporter.Every time he shot a squirrl it blew up,every time I shot a squirrl it blew up.Only thing is he killed ten squirrles for my one.I was busy cleanning my brand new Hart BBL while he was blasting squirrels.  | |||
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This thread has digressed to such topics as 1.980" groups in a windy 600 yard match, the correct manner in which to consume Jack Daniels and the sound smokeless powders make upon burning uncontained. Certainly while such subjects have their merits they're not the substance of the thread intended to search out the truth about so called "improved" cartridges and I must therefore conclude that all such discussion has ceased. Those that have learned something here can move foreward and those that still believe their .257 Roberts AI outshoots the .257 Weatherby will want to glean from the wisdom of Ass_Clown's thread on his own proprietary cartridges. | |||
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actually my 1.980" statement was related to AC's response that my gunsmith must be damn competent (straight chamber and long brass life) which was related to my statement about my 280AI AND my 6.5-06AI AND my 6.5x55AI which were the test subjects I used as data to prove I had indeed gotten higher velocities and brass life from my ACKLEY IMPROVED calibers,..which if I'm not mistaken is the topic at hand?? sometimes the proof doesn't always resemble the hypothesis,..even though it is ultimately proven. as for the whiskey,..well anyone that don't like whiskey needs to go shopping for some new panties  | |||
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JustC, Quote: Very well said!! | |||
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