I know the Winchester brass vs Norma brass thing has been done extensively on most discussion boards and the advantages of the better brass are clear. But what I'm curious about is how does factory brass that's been worked on compare to out of the box Norma-Lapua-RWS from an accuracy point of view? If I get a bag of Win brass, trim to uniform length, outside neck turn, debur flash holes, uniform primer pockets, eliminate excessively under/over weight cases, etc - How would these cases compare to the expensive stuff straight out of the box?

Also with the $$$ stuff, do you generally need to do any of the uniforming work to get good accuracy or is it pretty good as made?

I can only speak to Lapua and Nosler as I've not used any of the other premium brass' out there. The prep is all done for you and usually there is very little weight difference of the cases within a lot.

Uniformed and sorted Win brass will work just as well as Lapua (or Norma) brass. The number of rejects will be higher, and there will be more work involved.

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
Uniformed and sorted Win brass will work just as well as Lapua (or Norma) brass. The number of rejects will be higher, and there will be more work involved.

- mike

I agree... I uniform all of my brass and it works out just fine... and keeps me off the streets

I've used Norma - good stuff, lasts forever if you take care not to push the envelope and makes top notch loads, too.

..... but like Mike (mho) says - I've got top shelf loads that have been made with Winchester, Remington, Geco, Hornady & Privi, too.

RWS - ? Ho-hum - I can take it or leave it; it doesn't excite me but it's REALLY useful to have if you load metrics. Personally I prefer their Geco label. We get tons of RWS Hornet brass but I'll dive into a dumpster after W-W Super - it's better IMO.

I purchased an EXPENSIVE 50 box of Nosler pre-prepped, sorted & weighed, trimmed, chamfered, inside/outside primed pockets, etc. for a 300 Weatherby. O.K., it saved me the work but shoots just as good as my self-prepped Weatherby (Norma) & R-P 300 Weatherby brass, although I get to do all the prep.

The ONLY brass that I've ever noted as truly outstanding (accuracy & longevity) is the Lapua .223 Match brass which shoots circles around any other brand name brass in .223 Remington I've ever tried; period.

Ok thanks. Reason I was asking is I have some new RWS cases in 243 that have been sitting doing nothing for a while. I was just wondering if I use them out of the box for some varmint loads will they be better/same/worse than I if uniform the some Winny cases (that I also have)?

It will compare very well. Premium brass just saves you some sweat equity time.
Note that Sherri Gallagher was using Rem brass.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
It will compare very well. Premium brass just saves you some sweat equity time.
Note that Sherri Gallagher was using Rem brass.

Yep---just takes more time to prepare. I will say that there has been at least 1 lot of Lapua 338 brass in the past that was off dimensionally. Had to use a different shell holder even.

It's just a matte of what you want to invest, time or money.

As for Rem brass, my last few experiences with Rem brass have been very good.

If you do all that, probably not much except for longevity. Lapua comes annealed, lasts quite a long time w/ full loads. Accuracy wise, I see little diff in my best rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
Lapua comes annealed, lasts quite a long time w/ full loads.

Actually I think that all (?) brass comes annealed. Most brass is polished (tumbled?) after annealing, though, so you don't get the discoloring that the Lapua displays. Once fired and tumbled, they all look the same anyway.

I absolutely dote on Lapua brass, and it is known to be able to withstand high pressures. That is one of the reasons the BR shooters love it so much. I personally have little use for pressures that high, so even lesser brass lasts well for me. Possible exception: Norma or Remington when loaded hot, or Federal Gold Match where the primer pockets seem to loosen up inordinately fast.

- mike

I know this is something of an aside but I'm pretty new to the reloading thing and have some lapua 308W brass here which has been fired about 15 times. These firings were working up loads and then about 9 times with a book max load, so not max loads all the time. I took to and sectioned one of the cases to see if there was any evidence of thinning and as far as my eye can tell there is none to be seen. I've no experience of reloading other brass, Lapua is what is available locally, but from what I can see the Lapua seems good value for money and at present on 15 firings the cases are costing me about 4 pence per case, I guess that is about 6 or 7 cents. By contrast my 150 grain Hornady spire points are costing about 40 pence each so the cases are good value.

Dearly beloved fellow shooters...

There was an article in the December 2008 issue of Handloader magazine that compared various factors in developing an accurate 308 Winchester load. For virgin brass, going from best accuracy to least accuracy:

1. Nosler - most accurate.
2. Federal
3. Lapua
4. Remington plated
5. Remington plain
6. Norma
10. Winchester

Accuracy with once fired cases:

1. Nosler - most accurate
2. Federal plated
3. Winchester
4. Remington plain
5. Federal plain
6. Remington plated
7. Lapua
8. Norma

Brass endurance test (cases full length sized and reloaded to failure):

1. Norma - best longevity with 24 reloadings (failed on 24th reload).
2. Remington plated - 22 reloadings
3. Remington plain - 20 reloadings
4. Lapua - 15 reloadings
10. Nosler - dead last in the longevity ratings with failure on the 11th reload.

The article was well worth reading and other variables were evaluated including primers and bullets with some surprises. There was no mention of flash hole deburring, case sorting by weight, etc. Understand, it doesn't bother me at all if you turn necks, clean primer pockets, and deburr until the cows come home but for anyone who is satisfied with 1 inch 100 yards groups and/or doesn't have a firearm capable of under 1 MOA groups, it's pretty unlikely you'll see an appreciable accuracy difference on paper for all that sweat equity.

It's entirely possible that there are differences in specific lots of brass and if the testing was done again with different brass lots there could be different rankings.

Funny story, circa 1992 from Precision Shooting Magazine. Eric Ambler, noted Hunter Bench Rest competitor from Colorado.

After much to do about the absolute necessity of matching and segregating brass, he won the Firewalker HBR matches using just six cases.
One each, Remington, Winchester, Speer (DCM), NORMA, Federal, and one surplus 308 case of undisclosed parentage. He turned the case necks, prepped them and just kicked all our butts. Bad!

Rich

You can't do much about the wind and mirage, except practice in it with a good spotter. If match prepping cases gives you more confidence with matched brass case head, etc; go for it. In the end Mariah and Mirage always win.

How is Eric Ambler related to John?