I'm new to reloading and attempting to develop my first load. I first wanted to see how accurate I could get my Savage BVSS to shoot so I started with Varget and Hornady A-Max 168 gr. Lyman's book indicated I was safe to go from 41 to 45.7 grains of Varget. I started at 42 and worked up to 44.5 at .5 gr. incriments. At 44.5 I started showing signs of high pressure. I took the brass to an excellent 1,000 yd shooter who reloads. He confirmed it was high pressure.

I then bought a Sierra book that indicated safe loads from 40.3 to 43.5. Why is there such a variance between the books?

After shooting 5 shot groups with these new reloads, I'm shooting approx. 1 MOA at 100 yds. I haven't been able to determine a favorite load; somewhere between 42 and 43.5 so I am now getting ready to start reloading and working off the lands to try and improve this. If I start with .001 off the lands what increments should I work with?

Any other suggestions as to where I should go next? I'm trimming all my brass the same, etc.

I bought some Sierra 168 gr. and RL-15 and am considering coing to this. What do you think?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2nd Hand Lion:
. If I start with .001 off the lands what increments should I work with? QUOTE]

I think you'll find that .001 is not real.

You might try for an average of .015" to start with and get larger to about .070". Than you might [[reduce]] the load some and try touching or slightly engage bullet to rifling. roger

Ive been using R15 in my 308 with 165gr horndays SP. Max in the nosler book is 44.5, speer book 47gr R15.

Ive settled on 45gr R15 and 165 gr bullet. 45.5-46 gr primer was getting flatter. Nice load and very accurate at 100 and 200yds in my 1953 m70 .308. I seat .010-.020 off the lands

Just started playing with some 180 lapua megas and 42gr+ of R15.

I need to stock up on more R15 and Ill try some imr4064 also

Sierras are accurate bullets . I use them quiet abit

Thanks for the info.

Also, when you measure your group are you measuring from center to center, inside to inside, or outside to outside of the holes? What should I expect to get from this factory rifle?

I have never tried RL-15 in a 308 Win. but get good results with IMR 4064. In my opinion, a good 308 Win. should be able to get no less than 1.5 inch 5 shot 100 yard groups. Many would accept worse accuracy than that and a few get much better. In a good bolt action 308 Win., groups in the 0.5 to 0.75 inch range are realistic. The groups would be measured from the centers of the two bullet holes that are the farthest apart.

When I work up loads, I start with a load in the lower of the recommended powder charge ranges. I then incrementally work up the load looking for pressure signs. The pressure sign I like the best is the group size. As a load is worked up in an accurate gun, many times the group will start wide and then tighten up. At some point the group won't get any tighter and will then start to widen up. I stop increasing the load where the groups are the tightest. I, of course, also monitor other signs of high pressure such as primer appearance, sticky extraction, etc.

I don't usually do this but, for the best possible accuracy you would work with one lot of brass, uniform the primer pockets and deburr the flash holes and turn the necks.

quote:

At 44.5 I started showing signs of high pressure. I took the brass to an excellent 1,000 yd shooter who reloads. He confirmed it was high pressure.

I then bought a Sierra book that indicated safe loads from 40.3 to 43.5. Why is there such a variance between the books?

I am now getting ready to start reloading and working off the lands to try and improve this. If I start with .001 off the lands what increments should I work with?

Any other suggestions as to where I should go next? I'm trimming all my brass the same, etc.

I bought some Sierra 168 gr. and RL-15 and am considering coing to this. What do you think?

What pressure signs did you see?

There are alot of variables that will determine what a rifle can and cannot shoot. Freebore, chamber dimensions, being hard into the rifling, jumping to the rifling...the list goes on.

I would get you bullets off of the rifling. If you are shooting this rifle as a repeater, ste up the oal of the rounds to work thru the magazine. Then work your loads from that point. If shot as a single shot you can make the oal longer. I shoot my Hunter Benchrest rifle (308 Obermeyer) 0.030" off the rifling. I do this to eliminate any pressures spikes compared to jammed into the rifling. Plus it is more consistant in my rifle.

Work your loads in 0.010-0.015" increments off the JAM (JAM is just touching the rifling).

"The groups would be measured from the centers of the two bullet holes that are the farthest apart."

Yes, and the easiest way to measure group size (center to center) is to find the two holes that are furtherest apart, then measure from the "near" side of one of them to the "far" side of the other.

That automatically compensates for the diameter of the bullet by subtracting 1/2 the diameter of one hole while adding 1/2 the hole's diameter to the other.

Does that make sense?

Well...based on the way you suggest I take the measurements, I am presently shooting approximately a .65 five shot group at 100 yds.

As far a pressure signs, at 44.5 gr. I'm seeing the flat primers and powder burn around the primer.

This afternoon I have reloaded 42.5 gr. of Varget with 168 gr. Hornady A-Max at different lengths using .005 increments off the lands. I then reloaded 42.5 gr. of Varget with 168 Sierra the same way. I then reloaded 42.0 gr. of RL-15 with 168 Sierra the same way. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks,

All rifles are different, and components vary. That's why there are recommended start loads. All of my rifles will take book max charges without any signs of pressure, except for one. If you're not jamming the bullets into the lands, it may just be something you need to live with and adjust for accordingly.

"Seeing powder burn around primers". Well thats isnt a good sign!! That brass is junk .I have never had leaky primer pockets on my reloads. Only on some hot Black Hills reloaded brass ammo. That is going to pit your bolt face.

Do you use a hand held primer tool? Are the pockets loose when you load your primers?

I only had one powder burn but the rest of the primers were starting to flatten. I use a handheld primer. This was Federal match brass, once fired and I cleaned the primer pockets.

Are your cases headspaced for your chamber? Having flatten primer is an indication that the cartridge could not be headspaced correctly.

Also, if you have primer that take little resistance to set...get rid of them. I would recommed using Lapua or Win brass.

On these loads that are giving pressure peaks, are they hard to extract from the chamber? Is the bolt hard to lift?

The last winchester 308 brass I bought got, 25% got cracks in the middle of necks on 2nd loading, I ll be getting maybe remington brass next.

Like MSwicked mentioned about flat primers, my first load with new brass always has flattened primers first loading then when its fireformed to the chamber and neck sized, same load, primers are not flattened

Relaoding manuals are guides, you need to work up to a load that is max. in YOUR rifle. Every manual & data is different because no two guns/bbls. are the same. That's why my best .308 load may be over pressure in your rifle & vise/versa.
Flattened primers are not always a good guide. Some primers are "softer" than others. When the primer pockest are getting loose enough to let powder gas escape, that's too much pressure. Watch for sticky bolt lift, usually too much pressure. I have found the Federal GMM brass "soft" & prefer WW or Lapua as well. You are shooting pretty nice groups if you are under 3/4" for 5, keep it up.

You asked several questions, and I am not certain that anyone has answered all of them.

Manuals vary because their pressure guns are different and they use different components in building their loads. It is a good idea to look at what several manuals say, and err on the side of caution.

You need to invest in a chronograph if you are going to be serious about your reloading. There is a direct relationship between velocity and pressures.

You are using an excellent powder for this round, and a good bullet. The Sierra 168 is also a very good bullet. Your five shot groups are excellent particularly for a factory rifle. I'd keep good records of your loads, their length, and the components. You have probably hit a winner that you'll want to reproduce.

Play a little with the seating depth (don't seat into the rifling), and play with primers. You did not say what you are using, but you may just what to hold everything and try several different primers.

Generally, groups are from center to center; however the easy way to measure that is from one edge of the hole to the closest edge of the
next hole.

You are doing great. Stay with it. Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Lion:
I only had one powder burn but the rest of the primers were starting to flatten. I use a handheld primer. This was Federal match brass, once fired and I cleaned the primer pockets.

Very interesting. I was just working up a load for a 7mm-08 handgun (15" Encore) and got a "leaky primer" situation on one round.

The brass? Federal.

From what I've personally experienced, Federal brass is pretty soft, though this was the first time I'd ever had a primer leak. I had a Mossberg .243 Win. and fired Federal factory loads (100 gr. bullet) always had an ejector mark on the casehead. Other brands didn't do that.

As it wasn't really that hot of a load, I plan to work up again using different brass to see what happens. I'll probably go with Winchester or RP.