A buddy who handloads gave me a sweet little 1955 Husqvarna model 4100 in 7x57 last year.

He had successfully loaded for it before and I needed some loads so last night I went over there with powder and brass and he had 140 gr. Nosler partitions and primers and we were set to go.

My brass was once fired clean de-primed brass I got from a gun show and after making a few loads and trying them in the rifle the bolt wouldn't close without considerable force on them.

His previous loads made on the same dies closed no problem, so we realized we should have resized the bass and did that. Still no-go.

Well, maybe the dies are off after all. We took 12 empties that had been fired in that same rifle and resized them, made a sample load with the Nosler and still the bolt wouldn't close without forcing.

He has considerable experience loading all variety of calibres and like I said even this specific rifle.

We're stumped.

1st measure the case expansion and compare it to factory specs. it sounds like you may need a small base die, or possibly that you are not running the case far enough into your existing die

Turn the FL die down another 1/16th turn.

Is the bullet jamed into the lands>

If the bullet is not jammed into the lands, just shoot the ones you have loaded even though it's an effort to close the bolt. That will fire form them to your chamber. For any that are not already loaded, as posted, turn you die down further. Do a quarter turn and resize a case and see if it'll fit and so forth.

Next time we'll check to make sure the 1X brass fits even though we've resize it, right?

I WOULD NOT FIRE LOADS THAT HAVE A PROBLEM CLOSING THE BOLT EVEN THOUGH YOU COULD FORCIBLY CLOSE THE ACTION.

SOUNDS LIKE AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN.

Two other possibilities:

When seating the bullet you may be mushrooming the case at the shoulder body junction.

When drawing the case from the sizing die the expander may be tightly draging thereby elongating the shoulder.
With no sizing under normal use the fired cases , no bullets inserted, should chamber. roger

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..

Are the cases trimmed to length?

quote:

Originally posted by Hublocker:
A buddy who handloads gave me a sweet little 1955 Husqvarna model 4100 in 7x57 last year.

He had successfully loaded for it before

His previous loads made on the same dies closed no problem,

He has considerable experience loading all variety of calibres and like I said even this specific rifle.

We're stumped.

Regardless of "considerable experience", it seems to me some steps were passed in the process, which would have caught, and identified the specific problem, beofre you got the finished cartridge, which wouldn't fit.

If it was me, I would start over. Have the rifle handy.

Generally I trim brass after it is sized, if needed, to stay under max length for the brass. But in this situation, we don't know for sure that the brass is within spces for OAL length. Measure it to be sure, and trim if necessary. Handloads work best if all the brass in a batch are trimmed to the same length, especially if later crimped in the final seating process.

Size some brass, but not with the die firm on the shell holder, Try the empty case in the chamber. If it fits with no or little resistance to closing the bolt, then it's sized enough. If it is tight, then turn the die down a little, and try another piece of brass from the same batch. Keep doing this until the bolt closes easily on the sized brass case. (then go back and size the whole batch the same way, including the previous pieces) If you turn the die down to where it is touching the shell holder, with the ram all the way to the top, and it's still not enough to FL size for easy fit, then run the ram/shell holder all the way to the top, screw the die down hand tight, then back off the ram/shelholder and screw the die down a little further, about 1/2 turn. Then with the ram all the way up again, tight against the shellholder, turn the lock ring tight against the top of the press. Now there will be a little resistance when running the ram up onto the die with no shell case in it. If done properly, and actually needed, you will have to run the ram all the way up again to release the tension on the lock ring, to avoid having to use tools to remove the die from the press when finished. This is actual FL sizing. All the squeeze that can be had, with that die/shelholder combo, will be obtained. If that's not enough, then there are other problems, which I can't speculate about.


In my reloading processes, I do not start out with the die screwed down tight against the shelholder, but work it down to fit the individual chamber. That's an important distinction, which I'm recommending to you as well. I also recommend to not set the dies as though you have found the magic setting, for all subsequent batches, but do each batch the way I described, that way you get a tight shoulder against the chamber, for good headspace and long case life. BTW, I rarely use the set screw to lock the ring on the dies, since I set them each batch, and want the ring to turn freely by hand. You can partially size cases for subsequent firing in the same rifle, maybe two or three times, before they get tight and need FL sizing again.

After you have discovered the correct place to set the FL die, then you are assured that the case is sized properly, and generally can eliminate that as a probable cause of a later problem.

In order to avoid loading a live round indoors, make some dummy rounds. Seat the bullet, then try it in the chamber. Find the length where it won't close, and keep seating deeper until the ogive clears the lands, then go a little further. Use the dummy round to set your seating dies in the future.

BTW, often the 7x57 has a long throat of the European specs, and generally the bullet seated to normal depth, to the crimp groove or factory OAL length or handload book OAL length, is correct. Some throats are so long that it's difficult to seat a bullet out far enough to actually touch the lands. Generally, seating the bullet just shy of the lands is a technique applicable to SAAMI (US) chambers and throats only. In your case the seating depth should not be an issue, if the cartridge doesn't exceed factory ammo OAL, or simply seat the bullet to the crimp groove.

If you have a problem, caused in the seating process, it is much easier to identify the cause, once you already know the empty and sized case will fit the chamber, and allow bolt closure easily. With a little experience, especially with a given rifle / dies set combo, most of the time I like to feel slight resistance to bolt closure on the empth case. That way I know the shoulder is not set back by improper setting of the sizer die. Pappa bear says, not too much, not too little, but just right.

Make sure the seating die is not crimping the mouth of the case, until after you discover the correct seating depth, then if crimping is desired it can be done in a seperate step, or by setting the die correctly. This is where proper trim-to length of the brass is important, so the case mouth hits the crimp ring inside the die the same way for the entire batch. If not trimed to the same length, then it's best to not crimp at all.

I'm of the opinion that you have describe the results of poor reloading practice, and some shortcuts were taken.

From what you said, most likely it's not the rifle, but it could be.

Start over, and do it correctly, step-by-step.

KB

It is possible that the seater die is turned too far down in the press and it is crimping the case mouth against a bullet where no crimp groove exists. This can result in slightly buckling or swelling the case at the shoulder or neck.

There are numerous other possiblities, as have been mentioned. Your buddy, while "experienced" is obviously overlooking something very fundamental. Perhaps it's just a problem he happens to never have run into before, therefore hasn't had to deal with.

I agree with other forum members - resize and check in the chamber. I had similar problems with Federal/Hornady brass and the process explained above, solved my problem. I also agree that you should be causious that it is not the seeting dies. Lower the ram with a case in the shell holder and into the seating dies. Then turn the seater dies down in the press until you feel it is touching the case. Then turn the seater dies out at least one to two turns. Then lock the seater dies and proceed with bullet seating.

I'm gonna go a bit off the wall here. I have a custom 30-06 with an very tight chamber. I ran into the same problem and no messing around with the sizing dies (two sets) fixed the problem. I talked with the gunsmith who uilt the rifle and he said to check out the slots where the locking lugs go. he also said the rifle was built with absolute minimanl tolerences and if any dirt got behind the lugs, tight chambering oe even not being able to chamber might occur. He did say he would loosen the dimension a bit if I wanted. I cleaned out the lug area and the rifle's been fine ever since. I'm not saying that's the ause of the problem but a few minutes with a few Q-tips would eliminate that possibility. FWIW, it fixed the problem with my rifle.
Paul B.

quote:

When drawing the case from the sizing die the expander may be tightly dragging thereby elongating the shoulder.

Or as stated Cases need trimming !. Purchasing used cases fired from another Rifle sometimes simply don't just resize in the Die !.
Elongation occurs and cases need to be brought back within specs .

Take the Bolt out look into the chamber with a pen light or strong flashlight See any obstruction ?.
Now check behind the lugs on the bolt is all OK ?. Take a new case or factory cartridge point that barrel somewhere safe ,then chamber a round . Did it Go ? If it did make your cartridge too factory specs . If not there's a Major problem FIND IT before firing the rifle !.

If you use an empty case an everything looks OK and chambers ,then spec the cases too the one that fir . Use it an Make a dummy Round with NO POWDER or PRIMER but put a bullet in it does it chamber now ?. If not bullet depth is incorrect or if you put a Primer in , it isn't flush !.

The gentleman said they sized cases that had been previously fired in the rifle and they didn't fit either with the named Nosler bullet. That leads me suspect the bullet or the seating method such as mentioned. I would first mic the diameter of the bullet to see if it is indeed .284 although a 30 caliber bullet wouldn't begin to chamber.

A little note of interest is that those Huskys had odd ball twists. I believe the twist they used for 7x57 is 1 in 12 which means it's not going to shoot the heavier bullets very well. The norm for 7x57 is around 1 in 9. They done odd ball twist in other calibers too like the 308. Seems to the too slow twist side.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
That leads me suspect the bullet or the seating method such as mentioned.

Me too, but it could be any of the causes mentioned. We are having to speculate. That's why I suggested starting over. If the step of checking to see if the sized case fit had not been bypassed, the possibilities of where the actual problem is would be narrowed somewhat.

Just because the cases had been fired in that rifle before, gives some assurance, but not much. At least we can infer that it's not some cases giving problems, but all of them.

Start at the beginning, check the chamber, lugs, primer seating, etc. See if factory ammo will chamber, which will give a big clue. Compare visually the handloads with the factory loads - see anything obvious?

Once upon a time, I had a similar problem to solve for two Norweigian old farts. Turned out they had two similar rifles, and they decided to give them a thorough cleaning, and got drunk while doing it, and swapped bolts.

Putting the correct bolt back where it belonged solved the problem. They hunted for two weeks with the wrong bolt in their rifles. One rifle wouldn work at all, so they shared the other rifle.

KB

Boltshooter, stop screaming for a moment and tell me why a cartridge that isn't over long but does fit tightly is an accident waiting to happen? Facts please and no examples of one that you were told by your buddy whose cousin's BIL overheard in a bar. Screaming silly shit like that doesn't make you appear smart nor creditable.

I think the brass was 1X that he had bought at a gun show, I don't think the brass had been previously fired in the rifle.

IMO, since we don't know how really experienced the reloader was but it would seem fundemental to check for correct case length before reloading. That's something you do with new brass, 1X brass, range pick up, etc. I think the reloader didn't check to see if the 1X brass would fit before starting to reload. And, I daresay, he resized the brass as if it was 1X in the subject rifle.
If the rifle will go into battery but with an effort, and the bullets are not too far out nor is the case too long, the only culprit can be mis-shapened or mis-sized brass. Simply turning down the die a partial turn and resizing an empty would answer that question. If the case with the deeper resizing fits, then you prime it, powder it, and seat a bullet. If it still chambers readidly, you have your answer. If not, it could be the seater stem or the seater die threaded in too far but these dies had been used before to seat bullets for this rifle.
You can over-think something like this.

If the seating die was screwed in too far, there is a chance that the shoulder might have been bumped to oversize, causing the problem.

I always start my seating die in the press, run an empty resized case up into it with the ram all the way up, then screw the seating die in until it meets resistance.

Also, as mentioned above, the case may have been fired in an oversize chamber, causing the base to expand beyond the point where a regular resizing die will correct the problem. It's a simple task to measure the base of the resized case and compare it with the dimension of an unfired factory round. The correct maximum base diameter should be 12.01mm/.473".

Useing brass from another rifle is always fraught with potential problems.

Buy some new brass, F/L resize it and if the problem continues it may well be the rifle

quote:

Well, maybe the dies are off after all. We took 12 empties that had been fired in that same rifle and resized them, made a sample load with the Nosler and still the bolt wouldn't close without forcing.

That's for those of you that keep on with brass that fired in another rifle. He plainly stated there they took cases that were fired in that same rifle, sized them, and still wouldn't fit after they were loaded.

What we need from him is if those cases mentioned fit after sizing without the bullet loaded in them.

If they did then what I would do is load up a dummy round and black marker pen the entire bullet, the case neck and shoulder, and partly down the case wall. Chamber gentle, hit the bolt a few tried to help put marks on the black marker, extract carefully and examine so see if there are rub marks anywhere. That will be your problem.

Cartridges that are not too long but are still tight can be dangerous if the tightness is caused by a thickened neck that does not have room to expand and release the bullet when fired.

Bruce

Good idea to check the rifle. I once had a similar problem and found some crud stuck on the bolt face. Cleaned it up and problem was solved.

Sometimes the expander buton will drag the
shouulder forward a scosh. Put a little imperial die wax on the inside neck/shoulder junction with a q-tip. That is always good practice. Try chambering a resized empty case
to isolate the problem.
Reloading is Fun!

quote:

My brass was once fired clean de-primed brass I got from a gun show and after making a few loads and trying them in the rifle the bolt wouldn't close without considerable force on them.

O! I know all about that brass. I tried to anneal it and annealed it all the way to the case head and it was messed up so I was going to scrap it but I took it to a gun show and knew some fool would buy it and not know any better. BUYING ONCE FIRED BRASS OR PICKUPS AT A GUN SHOW IS A QUICK WAY TO GET KILLED.

I have another possible answer as I have the same problem trying to resize some one fired brass from a couple of 243Win that I owned and want to use in a friends 243. I actually broke part of the press arm trying to resize the cases enough to fit. Some fit tight and some not at all. More than one brand of brass. Brass was all trimmed and would not fit with or without a bullet. I spoke with Hornady Tech and he said I should remove 10 to 20 thousands from the shell holder and give it a try. First I tried 2 different brands of holders. I gound one down on a grinder (too much) and it resized a case to fit. I am taking a new holder to a machine shop and have one turned down because I have more than 100 RWS cases and others. This might fix your problem

quote:

Originally posted by Hublocker:
A buddy who handloads gave me a sweet little 1955 Husqvarna model 4100 in 7x57 last year.

He had successfully loaded for it before and I needed some loads so last night I went over there with powder and brass and he had 140 gr. Nosler partitions and primers and we were set to go.

My brass was once fired clean de-primed brass I got from a gun show and after making a few loads and trying them in the rifle the bolt wouldn't close without considerable force on them.

His previous loads made on the same dies closed no problem, so we realized we should have resized the bass and did that. Still no-go.

Well, maybe the dies are off after all. We took 12 empties that had been fired in that same rifle and resized them, made a sample load with the Nosler and still the bolt wouldn't close without forcing.
He has considerable experience loading all variety of calibres and like I said even this specific rifle.

We're stumped.

1st of all i'm no expert, but anyone that brings home once fired brass from a show or anywhere else and just WHIPS up some loads shows lack there of EXPERIENCE! The cases should be checked over thoroughly, cleaned, "RESIZED", measured, trimmed to length, and tried in the chamber before a live round is even made. This from start to finish suggests an accident waiting to happen. I have learned a ton from these guys on here and patience is the first rule. It seems you may wanna slow down a bit and do it the right way before you have to slow down due to missing an eye or a limb. It sounds like the added length after sizing has made the necks too long or the shoulder isn't being bumped enough. Are they the same brand of cases your buddy used previously? Even if they are that may not mean much lot to lot. Has the rifle been cleaned? Piece of debris in the shoulder of the chamber? Could be alot of things. Just my .02.