Hi everyone, a new member here from the UK seeking advice.

I have read many of the posts here on working up a suitable load and I think I understand the basic principles.

I start with the minimum powder volume as recommended in the loading manuals and powder manufacturer’s data and gradually increase the load towards the maximum. If I measure each group size as it is fired and being sure to examine each fired round to check for over pressure signs I should see the group size shrink until an optimum load is identified.

What I am not sure about is the size of increase in powder volume I should be making for each group of rounds.

Also what are your recommendations for the number of rounds per load I should be making to gain a representative example for establishing groups?

I.e. should I fire one five shot group per load or two or three?

Thank you
Backworth Bob

Typically in my load development I start one half grain above minimum. For "slow" powders I increase by one half grain to maximum. For the "faster" powders I increase by three tenths.
In order to have a representative sample I load 10 rounds(two five shot groups) of each. There are surely other methods, however this is the one I use.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

Backworth Bob,

Besides dealing with the changes in powder charges we make in working up a load I find it important to test the rifle in the way that it will be used in the field or on the target range.

In other words if its a big game hunting rifle its not that likely that it will be used with a hot barrel.

Thus when testing such rifles I let the barrel cool between loads. It works out good to bring three or more rifles to the range so that none of them get hot between groups.

For groups I find that three shots are enough for big game rifles. Also make a note of the impact location of the first shot.

other factors that can make or break accuracy include seating depth, neck sizing versus full-length sizing, trying a different component etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Backworth Bob:
I start with the minimum powder volume as recommended in the loading manuals and powder manufacturer’s data and gradually increase the load towards the maximum.

No loading manual I know of lists smokeless powder volume...it's always listed in grains...7000 grains equaling 1 pound.

Only blackpowder loads are volumetric.

If you haven't done so, buy an all around reloading book for newbies...Lyman's 49th is my suggestion. It will answer 95% of your questions.

In general, the bigger the case, the bigger the incremental increase from one charge weight to the next. If you are working with case volume of the 30-06 size, an increase of .1 grain is just wasting your time and components. Nothing is carved in stone but a .5 to 1 full grain increase from the starting load is in order until you start getting closer to the MAX weight, then decrease to .3 grain increases.

I know there is at least one AR member who will call this next bit of advise BS, (you know who you are HotCore, so let's not beat around the bush). I put my chronograph to good use when working up new load recipes. I note the speed increase for each powder weight increase. It will usually stay consistent up to the point (usually) near maximum when the case's efficiency slows way down or stays the same. Sometimes more powder even yields less bullet speed! If I don't get a satisfactory group size I move on to another powder and start the process over. Have patience and for goodness sake, have fun. Welcome to AR.

onefunzr

lee's loading manual does list loads by both weight and volume; they also list a very easy method for converting weight to volume and vice-versa. lee writes extensively on using volume measurements and it makes good sense to me.

for instance, all cartridges have a useable case volume; knowing this usable case volume can help you find a powder/charge that makes the most efficient use of the space in the case. this leads to greater uniformity and accuracy and helps in load development.

i second a recommendations for lyman's book, also lee's book and at least one other. most powder companies will give you their load data for free either in the form of printed material or online - all you need to do is ask.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
...I know there is at least one AR member who will call this next bit of advise BS, (you know who you are HotCore, so let's not beat around the bush). I put my chronograph to good use when working up new load recipes. I note the speed increase for each powder weight increase. It will usually stay consistent up to the point (usually) near maximum when the case's efficiency slows way down or stays the same. Sometimes more powder even yields less bullet speed! ....

I do believe Dave could go into "Mind Reading".

As usual, on things I see as worthless or that have the potential to create a Safety Problem, I do share those thoughts.

Dave is correct that when using some Powders, that I will say the chronograph is not only useless but also a potential Safety Hazard for an attempt to Develop Loads by watching Velocity. By the time you reach the point where the Velocity begins to Level-Off or Degrade, you are normally beyond the Safe Max Pressure.

Not all Powders react this way, but it is impossible for a Beginner(and most who think they know what they are doing) to be able to tell anyone(including themselves) which Powders, in which Cartridges, with which Bullets, with varying Bore/Chamber conditions provide the exact Balance to pick a combination that is Safe to use as Dave described.

Nothing tricky about it - unless you do not understand - and then it can be a Safety Hazzard.

Soooo, I agree with Dave's mindreading, using a Chronograph to Develop Loads is .
-----

Hey Backworth Bob, You might find the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method a benefit.

Hey Savage_99!

Sorry to hijack the thread, but nice lever action! Is it a .300 Savage or .303? I have a .303 handed down from my Grandfather........................................

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
lee's loading manual does list loads by both weight and volume; they also list a very easy method for converting weight to volume and vice-versa.

Perhaps we should wait until Backworth Bob informs us if he is working up loads using Richard Lee's little yellow scoops or a powder scale?

Thanks for all the advice
In answer to your question onefunzr2 I shall be using a powder scale to carefully measure (weigh) each charge. I just wanted to know what incremental steps would be advisable to make in the powder charge to achieve my optimum load.
In the UK we have restrictions on the number of rounds that we may posses at any one time. My certificate stipulates that I may have a maximum of 200 rounds in .243; therefore I do not want to make up a great number of experimental rounds which may take my total above my max considering I also have some factory loads for hunting.
Bob

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Hey Savage_99!

Sorry to hijack the thread, but nice lever action! Is it a .300 Savage or .303? I have a .303 handed down from my Grandfather........................................

That is a 99F in .358 Winchester. I got it in 1966 and its my favorite woods rifle.

quote:

Posted 04 March 2009 20:04 Hide Post
Thanks for all the advice
In answer to your question onefunzr2 I shall be using a powder scale to carefully measure (weigh) each charge. I just wanted to know what incremental steps would be advisable to make in the powder charge to achieve my optimum load.
In the UK we have restrictions on the number of rounds that we may posses at any one time. My certificate stipulates that I may have a maximum of 200 rounds in .243; therefore I do not want to make up a great number of experimental rounds which may take my total above my max considering I also have some factory loads for hunting.
Bob

When are you fellas going to kick the liberals down the yellow brick road?
I should not say too much though because the bleeding heart liberals here have voted in a black that will save the world by taxing 100 years of poor folks to death.
The grit, fortitude and love of God are gone from our great nation. It hurts that in my lifetime alone, my country worships gays, sports hero's and Hollywood actors more then our men in military that gave us our freedom, or God himself!

+1

Depressing world we live in.

quote:

Originally posted by Backworth Bob:
My certificate stipulates that I may have a maximum of 200 rounds in .243; therefore I do not want to make up a great number of experimental rounds which may take my total above my max considering I also have some factory loads for hunting.
Bob

For a .243 Win sized case, I think HotCore's tip here is noteworthy:

quote:

2.When selecting the amount of variation in the Powder, use 0.2gr in small cases(223Rem, etc.), 0.3gr in medium cases(308Win), 0.4gr in large cases(30-06), and 0.5gr in magnum cases(300WinMag). Do not start below or go above Loads shown in 2-3 Manuals.

So, increments of .3 to .4 grains would apply. Once you find some combination promising, then fine tune it with smaller increments, adjusting seating depth or primer make as needed. Always start low and work up when changing any component.

Just so we're all on the same page, I in no way suggested to ignore any loading manual's MAX load in favor of the chronograph's readings. I use it as a tool to indicate trends in the combustion process with relation to case capacity and powder charge weight.

Everyone, especially a novice, should remember safety first.

I certainly don't envy you Limey's strict regs. You need to jump through lots of hoops to utilize guns and their ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
lee's loading manual does list loads by both weight and volume; they also list a very easy method for converting weight to volume and vice-versa.

Perhaps we should wait until Backworth Bob informs us if he is working up loads using Richard Lee's little yellow scoops or a powder scale?

onefun - you can do it either way with lee's book. he mentioned volume in his opening post and i can assure you that volume is important, whether weighing or charges or using "the little yellow dippers."

quote:

That is a 99F in .358 Winchester. I got it in 1966 and its my favorite woods rifle.

I'd like to know more on the '99 and the 358 Win as a woods rifle! A new thread perhaps?

Back to topic - I think Hot Core has explained it well! Velocity 'increases' that do not follow powder charge increases could very well be caused by bullet obturation in the bore due to the 'strength' of the bullet being exceeded by the pressure, resulting in 'gripping' of the bore. Meaning simply;

quote:

By the time you reach the point where the Velocity begins to Level-Off or Degrade, you are normally beyond the Safe Max Pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by onefunzr2:
...Just so we're all on the same page, I in no way suggested to ignore any loading manual's MAX load in favor of the chronograph's readings. ...Everyone, especially a novice, should remember safety first.

I certainly don't envy you Limey's strict regs. ....

Completely agree.

in 243win i would shoot 5 shot groups. From the starting load i would add 1/2 gr of powder, till i get good accuracy, keeping away from the maximun load if possible. IMR 4350 powder and cci br2 primers with a Sierra 85gr gameking hpbt is a good place to start. Heavy recoil guns, 300mags, 375, 458 types, i would shoot 3 shot groups.