Considering stepping up to an electronic scale after 40 years on a beam-type scale.

What do I need to know?

thanks,


Okie John

I am not an expert by any means. I had a Dillon for 15 or so years and it died on me. Recently bought a Lyman, believe it was around $60, very reasonable. Its tiny, smaller than a deck of cards.
Both work just fine.
I did notice that on the Lyman, if my I phone is close to the scale, the read out goes bonkers, until I move the phone further away.
There are lots of choices and lots of variance in price, I don't know how to tell which is best bang for the buck.

Having been born into the meat business I'm familiar with scales that operate by finding equilibrium between it item being weighed and the position of a counterweight- but I am wondering what method is used by the electronic scales to determine the weight.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
Having been born into the meat business I'm familiar with scales that operate by finding equilibrium between it item being weighed and the position of a counterweight- but I am wondering what method is used by the electronic scales to determine the weight.

Electronic scales typically come with a set of check weights, and use protocol is to check the scale prior to actually using it.

Now, to the OP: I had an RCBS electronic and sold it. All it took was the A/C coming on and blowing out the register to cause that machine to lose its mind.

I still use an RCBS 505, and am still managing to build loads that are more accurate than the guy sitting behind the recoil pad (usually me...).

I hate to say this but whatever scale you buy first read the directions. I have three of them and never turn them off. Two reasons. Some have to warm up for 30 or so minutes and leaving them plugged in creates enough heat to deter moisture. The oldest is 15 or so years old. I do have balance beam scales but haven't used one since going electric.

I have a Hornady. It didn't survive the move from Australia, it reads a couple grains heavy now.

I might try another one later on.

They are really quick when they work.

I had a lyman with the dispenser, it sucked.

I've had a Lyman 1200 powder system for a looong time. It just keeps chugging along. The 30 minute warm-up may seem long but I usually have enough get ready task to do that it isn't a problem. The only problem I've had with it was it started tossing out random numbers. The tech lady said to wipe it down once in a while with a dryer cloth. I did and have had no more problems. It, of course, dumps some powders better than others. One trick I've learned is if the machine is dropping the charges long, just set it to dump 1/10th short of the desired weight. If it dumps to what you want, okay. If it comes up short, just tap the powder snout with a pencil and cause a couple of more grains to drop.

I’ve dabbled some in building some very simple electronic gadgets like RF amps, Audio Amps, transistor testers, radio transmitters (CW), traps, etc. I’m a real guppy at this, and my lack of understanding of what electrical thing influences other electrical things within a circuit has caused me to shy away from electronic scales.

The very best mechanical scale I’ve ever seen is an old Lyman M5, refurbished and tuned by Scott Parker (he buys these things, tunes them and sells them).

It is linear and reproducible, it settles quickly, and it is spot-on every time I test it with my check weights.

I don’t have to worry about extraneous electrical fields influencing it, warm-up times, controlling its power or any other electrical thing.


I know lots of folks swear by electronic scales and to those of you who do, God bless you! (I myself used them in the lab, back in the day).

But for reloading, I favor a device whose workings I can see and understand.

For the last 10 years I have been using a cheap $25 scale the size of a cigarette packet.

Works fine. I check it against my Ohaus balance beam scale every couple of years. I also check it with bullets more often.

Very easy to use. No complains.

The ammo has shot well and is safe with long case life.

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:
Having been born into the meat business I'm familiar with scales that operate by finding equilibrium between it item being weighed and the position of a counterweight- but I am wondering what method is used by the electronic scales to determine the weight.

electronic scales contain a loadcell, which consists of a crystal which changes resistivity when under load (compression) a small computer chip processes the change in resistance to calculate weight against a calibrated algorithm for the unit to drive a digital readout.
user can choose the readout units ( simple change in the algorithm used by the chip).
At least one test weight is supplied with quality units to enable the user to check that the unit is in calibration periodically.
FWIW

I have an RCBS which is fine- +/1 0.1 gr. Easy to use and calibrate- has 2 weights. Came with the powder dispenser set up.

But I use a Tanita jeweler's scale which goes +/- 0.05 gr. I use it regularly without incident.

I've owned a Pact digital scale and now use an RCBS Chargemaster. They're fast but they will drift a little on you. So, you gotta keep an eye on em.

I use a RCBS charge master scale and dispenser. I check the charge weight with a balance scale before and after charging cases.

Dave

I've had a Pact for years without complaint. Small, easy to use and calibrate. I do let it warm up a bit, as it suggests.

One comment. I do not leave it in my car. I had a friend that had his in his car sitting on the seat beside him. He used to reload at the range. He got stopped by the cops for a stop sign or something and they hauled him out of the car, handcuffed him and almost tore his car apart looking for drugs. They said the only people that had these were drug dealers. He finally got them to believe him, but a word to the wise.

I've found electronic scales to be an unnecessary complication to the loading process. You'll spend more time tuning, monitoring, and adjusting than you would ever save due to their (very slightly) greater speed. Balance beam scales, even the cheapest of them, are quite accurate and always dependable regardless of electrical fields, humidity changes, air drafts, or the nature of the material you're weighing.

I've owned 3. First was a MTM scale for about 30 bucks, worked fine and was repeatable till it died after about 1 1/2 yrs or so. Next was a Lyman Micro touch. It's worked fine. Warm up is a must. I recently bought a Gem Pro 250 ( $129.00)and it it wouldn't return to zero more times than not. Shipped it back and Lyman is doing my work for me now.
After your 40 yrs as you well know repeat-ability is most important I think.

I have had most of the ones made by the reloading equipment companies. Always had mixed fussy results. Have had an Acculab 123 for over 10 years and love it. Never an issue. I run two chargemasters at the same time when loading and then drop the charge on the acculab to double check before going in the case.

I think I'll just stick with my Ohaus 505. Lee dippers and a "salt" spoon to feather in the charge.

replace the fluorescent lights within ten feet of the scale with the nifty new LED four footers.

I have an expensive electronic scale VIC AccuLab-123 and it will not balance otherwise.

We have been using the RCBS electronic scale for years, and love it.

It is on all the time, only gets switched off when I am out of the country.

I have been tempted.... but the warranty on almost all of these really SUCK. ONE year is the norm. No way am I gonna pay 300 bucks for a scale with a 1 year warranty. Nor a 3 year warranty. For something that is relatively lightly used, that short of a warranty is unacceptable.

I'll stick with my beam scales.

My take is an electronic scale is great for weighing cases, bullets, etc. But when trickling powder onto them they "wander".
I owned two, one an RCBS and the other a Pact.
I much prefer using a beam and balance scale for trickling powder charges.

My RCBS has been flawless. I never turn off and check the accuracy with the weight set prior to reloading (different from calibrating).

A vibration free and air flow free room makes a huge difference.

So far my Hornady Bench Scale has worked like a charm.

( I too leave it on all the time).

quote:

What do I need to know?

You get what you pay for.

I ponied up more than $130 for the original 1200gr capacity Dillon D-Terminator powder scale which is different than what Dillon offers now. Not that my Ohas M-5 didn't work well for reloading rifle/pistol loads. But an electronic scale is so much faster and useful for weighing lead shot and cast lead boolits than any beam scale made.

I trickle the last tenths of rifle powder using an old non-child proof pill bottle. It's probably not PC anymore but I keep using it from habit. I have not pinned it down exactly but it might cause static electricity which will cause havoc with this scale. But it's always quite evident. Same with a drafty situation or fluorescent lights. Throw 60gr, 60gr, 60gr and then suddenly 64 crops up. From my experience it's not the scale itself causing the problem, but an outside source that is influencing the scale's error. I usually calibrate mine once a year just for grins.

I've been trusting this D-Terminator for more than 15 years. I hope it last the rest of my life as it has been discontinued for more than a decade. I have no experience with the current D-Terminator version. But it too costs more than $130 in today's dollars. Electronic scales are not the tool to cheap out on.

Just had an original Dillon die on me. The really old one that can not be user calibrated. On less than 10 grain charges it was way off. It took 15 actual grains to make it read 10 grains for instance. Very dangerious situation. Use the cehck weights!

I've been using an RCBS Chargemaster for years and thousands of rounds. To each their own...for me though, this thing has truly saved me much aggregation.

you asked what do I need to know?

you need to know better!, you been using your present scales for 40 years and they still work..

I can toss 1 or a 1000 loads with most powder with my powder measure and it is as accurate as the electronic scales..That comes from using and knowing how to use the powder measure with the same repetition each time that comes from you using it for 40 years..I doubt if some even need scales, but we all check out our powder measures from time to time..

I bought an RCBS digital when they first came out and it has worked well for many years. It has always been dead on when checked with my (cheap)check weights. Of late I have been thinking about moving up a bit. If you look at the specs for most reloading scales the words you don't see are 'traceability, gain error, linearity, temp drift, overall accuracy', etc. These are the kinds of things you would look for if buying a lab scale. If those things are important then you are looking at 300+$ to well over 1000$. A mediocre set of certified weights costs a min. of 160$. You have to decide what is important to you and then pay accordingly.
C.G.B.

I use an Ohaus Adventurer pro at work. When set for grains it reads to 0.1 gr. It is calibrated, traceable and near dead on accurate. It also cost over a grand.

For sorting bullets, a top loading electronic balance is pretty much required. I woul dnever have the patience to do it on a beam type powder scale.

For low cost test weights have somebody weight coins, say a quarter and a dime, using a calibrated analytic balance. Convert the readings to grains. Write those figures on a small envelope, store your coins in there. Keep it with your balance to check it.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
replace the fluorescent lights within ten feet of the scale with the nifty new LED four footers.

I have an expensive electronic scale VIC AccuLab-123 and it will not balance otherwise.

Gonna have to try that! They probably give off a bit more light, too, right? Thanx!

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Now, to the OP: I had an RCBS electronic and sold it. All it took was the A/C coming on and blowing out the register to cause that machine to lose its mind.

I still use an RCBS 505, and am still managing to build loads that are more accurate than the guy sitting behind the recoil pad (usually me...).

THIS!

My 25-year old RCBS single arm scale still works just fine. Along with a powder measure and trickler.

Back in the day I ran a student chemistry lab and we used electronic scales when they became affordable.
Here are some of the things I learned about electronic scales:

+They do need at least a 30 minute warm up.

+Nearby electronics/electricals can mess up the repeatability.

+Nearby mechanical devices can create errors.... Had a nearby convection oven[fan on]which made the readout cycle thru a series of numbers. It was a vibration thing transmitted along the countertop.

+if you move the scale to a different location, calibrate it again.

+Calibrate after you have the scale well warmed up.

+If your calibration weight/check weights show you that the scale is way off, calibrate, weigh a few things. Calibrate it again. The calibration process is an approximation, but is not perfect. the second calibration makes a good approximation even better. Less error to minimize.

+Making very accurate check weights with an analytic balance is a really good idea.

If I reloaded a larger volume I probably would go electronic.

quote:

Originally posted by RCflash:
My 25-year old RCBS single arm scale still works just fine. Along with a powder measure and trickler.

Back in the day I ran a student chemistry lab and we used electronic scales when they became affordable.
Here are some of the things I learned about electronic scales:

+They do need at least a 30 minute warm up.

+Nearby electronics/electricals can mess up the repeatability.

+Nearby mechanical devices can create errors.... Had a nearby convection oven[fan on]which made the readout cycle thru a series of numbers. It was a vibration thing transmitted along the countertop.

+if you move the scale to a different location, calibrate it again.

+Calibrate after you have the scale well warmed up.

+If your calibration weight/check weights show you that the scale is way off, calibrate, weigh a few things. Calibrate it again. The calibration process is an approximation, but is not perfect. the second calibration makes a good approximation even better. Less error to minimize.

+Making very accurate check weights with an analytic balance is a really good idea.

If I reloaded a larger volume I probably would go electronic.

Agreed, though I'd quibble with your thought that if you loaded more, you might go electronic.

I load lots of handgun cartridges with a progressive press and I use its powder measure. I check every 20th or so throw using my D5 balance beam.

The throw-weights vary minimally, never enough to be dangerous ("dangerous" being defined as a percent of the volume of the case I'm loading, and I load, in terms of volume, down to .380 ACP). I use the same technique for mass production of my .223/5.56 loads and will for my .225 Win, 6mm Rem and .243 Win loads. Works like a charm for me.

You can go likkity-split using that technique.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
you asked what do I need to know?

you need to know better!, you been using your present scales for 40 years and they still work..

I can toss 1 or a 1000 loads with most powder with my powder measure and it is as accurate as the electronic scales..That comes from using and knowing how to use the powder measure with the same repetition each time that comes from you using it for 40 years..I doubt if some even need scales, but we all check out our powder measures from time to time..

I'm with Ray on this,, I set my powder measure and throw every charge evenly and then check the loading block with a penlight to ensure they are all the same,they always are. This works on cartridges we shoot in local carnivals shoots as well. If a charge feels crunchy I just redo it!

For many years I used a Dillon beam scale. About 2 years ago got a Lyman digital that has become my primary scale.

With digitals, you can't breathe on them, have any fan on in the room or heat duct. If I pour powder to fast, it goes off by a tenth gr.