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I have a need to find a deer cartridge for say 100-150 yds, that would have the least decibels. This need should be with me for many years and warrants having a new bbl chambered for my Encore. I was thinking of maybe a .300 whisper in a 26 inch bbl. Any ideas? | ||
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I have no idea myself, but will be eager to hear the cognoscenti expound on this thread. I would think the Whisper in a longer barrel would be a very good start, but expect powder choice to be a serious consideration. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Silencers are legal. In CT they are legal for hunting. A retired cop bought his departments 308 with a silencer. I watched him shoot it and the only real noise was the roar of the bullet and when it hit at 200 yds. He got it for local coyote hunting and whatever. The more I think about it........ | |||
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I am aware of one gentleman over here in Grants Pass that has a 300 Whisper barrel on a Stevens 200 Action, with a 24 inch barrel on it... He shoots a 210 grain Cast bullet on it and uses RELoader 7 as a powder for it... It is a very accurate rifle at 100 yds.... The barrel was a Adams and Bennet Blank that he chambered himself at home... A poster on another forum was telling about his young son, taking a deer at about 100 yds, shooting a 308, and the load was a 180 grain Round Nose with a charge of 10 grains of Trail Boss powder, with an MV of about 1050 fps if I remember correctly.... that with a moderator or silencer would be an interesting set up for hunting suburbian areas... | |||
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I have asked the same question on various boards and got no useful responses. I couldn't find anything on the net, either. I can tell you that a 16" sks sounds a lot louder to me when firing than does a 20" version; that's about all I have for apples-to-apples comparisons. logic tells me to look for low pressure, efficient powder loads, and don't chop the barrel. look for bullet weight over velocity, but no need to keep subsonic. the whisper may do, but don't forget the 357 herret or the 7.62x39. or maybe shotgun slugs.... The Quiet Gun | |||
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Muzzle blast ( what causes the noise) with normal length barrels is a function of the volume of gas that exits a muzzle and the velocity at which the gas exits. The exception to this is with short barrels where there has been incomplete combustion of the powder. Additional blast is created when the powder hits the air outside the muzzle and burns (explodes). You see this with the large ball of flame and severe muzzle blast when many types of 7.62x 54R are fired in a M44 carbine. The only way to effective lesson the noise is to lesson the volume of gas (that means less powder) and to either shoot at lower pressure or lengthen the barrel or all the above. Be advised that even then unless you are shooting "cat's sneeze" loads at subsonic velocity the noise level will not be reduced a great degree to be "silent" by any means. Larry Gibson | |||
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I've used a 222 Remington which I think is relatively quiet and worked well for me. A 22 Hornet might also work with the right bullet though I have no personal experience with it. | |||
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cognoscenti ? That sounds like it would be good with clam sauce...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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I just e-mailed SSK Ind to see if they had an answer. We will see if they respond. I will keep you posted. Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety (1759) | |||
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Bigger bores should boom more than crack; the .44-40 was noted as being fairly mild of report in a long barrel. It is not the best 150 yd cartridge, though. If you can live with a 100 yd max, a .44 Mag or .44 Spl shooting hard cast bullets, say 200-250 gn over a smallish charge of very fast powder (to max pressure) in a 28" barrel should give you about as low a muzzle pressure as you can expect. The .357 is similar, but for a proper wound with hard cast, it's getting a bit small, unless you cram it full of powder to up the speed, which also ups the report. The .300 Whisper, or the Micro-Whisper, with pointy bullets seems a good idea, too. | |||
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Hey Monty, Is a Crossbow Legal where you are planning to do the Killing? I need to call a fellow tomorrow that knows a good bit about them. I'll try my best to remember to ask about their accurate Range. ----- Somebody help me out on the 300Whisper. Is it a 221FireBall Case necked-up, or what? I was flipping through a Manual today and got to thinking about all the posts I've seen on this Board asking about "Relatively Quiet" Cartridges. To me that implys Sub-Sonic and small amounts of Powder in a fairly long barrel. Anyway, as I was in the Manual, there was the old 30Carbine and it seemed that it "might be" ideal for this kind of outfit. (I did not do a "What If...?" question in the Ballistics Software, so I don't know what it would Guess about it.) No need to Reform Cases, it can use Carbide Dies and it does not require a special Wildcat Reamer. If chambered in a Single Shot, the throat could be extended for any Spire Point weight Bullet the user desires. The only problem I see is Killing Ability with a very low Impact Velocity. Any 30cal Spire Point Bullet I can think of is unlikely to Expand at this Impact Speed, including B-Tips. Maybe a Woops gotta get.... | |||
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The .300 Whisper is indeed on the .221 case. JD Jones has written glowing reports of the effects of 125 gn BT's at 2500 fps in even elk sized game. That has to be stretching it, but it should work for deer. This assumes supersonic is not verboten. To go sub-sonic, Jones recommends 220 and 250 gn bullets in the Whisper. I cranked some numbers through a trajectory calculator, and was surprised to see the 2" point blank range is only 1 yd different for RN and VLD, something under 100 yd for both when launched just subsonic. Regardless, as you point out, expansion seems unlikely, even for the RN. Perhaps if a VLD were cast of nearly pure lead and paper-patched? I'm not sure if sub-sonic is an issue. Without a silencer, you'll still get a "bang." The bang will be minimized by using small amounts of powder in a long a barrel. | |||
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An alternative is the 270 REN. It is the 22 Hornet case blown straight and loaded with .277 bullets. It was popular for silhouette shooting at one time, may still be. A 26"-28" 270 REN with the new 110 gr 6.8 SPC bullets ought to be quiet and lethal at the ranges you want. The 25 Hornet is similar and also a good one but I think the combination of larger piston area and good light bullets gives the 270 the edge. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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A muzzle blast deflector helps a great deal. All it does is direct the blast forward and, because it has a larger exit diameter and some volume, it reduces the blast pitch and intensity a bit. I have one on my 303 that overhangs the muzzle by about 1/2 inch but mounts two inches from the end of the muzzle and looks a lot like the logo on the top of this forum. The next step up would be a basic Maxim type moderator. It does not need to be big, long and ugly! Regards 303Guy | |||
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I spent a little time at the range today, with the gentleman that I spoke of above with the 300 Whisper... yes it is a 221 fireball necked up.... He runs his with RL 7.. the muzzle blast was pretty darn quiet on this one, withone a moderator or silencer... I saw what a 210 grain Cast Bullet did to a metal gong at 100 yds... really bent it back..MV is about 1100 fps on his.. He was indicating that instead of having to form 221 Fireball brass, or have to fireform it... he was looking at the differences between the 221 fireball case necked up... and the plain old 30 Carbine Case, which would require no work at all... He showed me a 30 carbine he had made a dummy round with the 210 grain Cast Bullet and indicated that he was getting a barrel chambered for it at home already.. just was waiting for a rental reamer.. He had already put a dummy case into the rifle chambered with the Fireball, and it extracted the 30 Carbine Case just fine... It made a lot of sense... Life Member: The American Vast Right Wing Conspiracy Jan 20, 2009.. Prisoner in Dumocrat 'Occupied America', Partisan in the 'Save America' Underground Beavis..... James Beavis..... Of Her Majesty's Secret Service..... Spell Check Division "Posterity — you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it." John Quincy Adams A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a 46." Duhboy....Nuttier than Squirrel Poop... | |||
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NRA Life ASSRA Life DRSS Today's Quote: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime. | |||
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Gentlemen: Thanks for all the repsonses. I hope we get some more. Monte Clahoun: Thanks for contacting SSk and for your service. Keep your head down over there. Bill/Oregon: That word, "cognoscenti". It ain't dirty is it? I noticed that if one says it really loud and fast, it clears your sinuses. Best to all. No Plea | |||
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Full Diameter (aka Wad Cutter profile) Lead Slug of whatever weight you desire would enhance the Killing ability of the extremely low velocity 30cal concept. That brings us back to "asdf"s suggestion of the 44Mag with Heavy Flat Nose Slugs in a long barrel. This appears to be the easiest to accomplish. ----- You may need to just put up a few Stands and if the shot is too far, let them pass until the next day. Best of luck to you. | |||
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http://www.dillerdesign.com/quietgun/  
That is them, this is me: I have been experimenting with slugs. I have made the barrel extensions stackable. The threshold of supersonic gas escapement is the difference between a fire arm sound and a BB gun sound. The advantage to the shotgun is that is has so much barrel volume for expansion. A 30 whisper can only use .2 gr powder and stay quiet with no silencer. A 45/70 can only use .5 gr powder and stay quiet without a silencer. But a 12 ga can use much more. A 12 ga long barrel can use even more powder than that and stay quiet. It must be counter intuitive, but I have seen some smart guys who don't realize until I tell them that these projects best use straight walled cartridges, so the bullet can be seated so deep that the .2 gr is compressed. That gets the expansion ratio up, the peak pressure up, and the efficiency up, but the noise stays the same as with the bullet in the mouth of the case. Part of the problem is that they read about cartridge optimized for silencers and then try those loads and call them sub sonic. The bullet may be sub sonic, but without a silencer, the gas is anything but subsonic. | |||
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My thoughts follow this line exactly--short case, high pressure, long barrel. | |||
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Hey tnekkcc, Have you tried Hunting anything with that Barrel? Are you using a Slug, Shot, or both? What kind of Velocity are you getting? | |||
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I can tell you this: Don't take it in the house before dissembling it. I cannot tell you a good load yet, but I am working on it. | |||
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 I was thinking it would take an interesting looking Gun Case. And sure to be a hit at the Airport during check-in. Don't need no stinkin disassembly!  | |||
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243 with a 22 inch or longer barrel. Casey | |||
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Got that done today and Randy said they are normally accurate for right at 40yds, maybe 50yds if you have everything going in your favor. And he said the real advantage over a Bow is you do not have to "draw it" at the time of the shot and that folks who are used to a Rifle adapt to it quickly. But a guy who can shoot a Bow well is not at a disadvantage compared to a Crossbow. By the way, you can't even "Net" Deer quietly. Best of luck to you. | |||
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just take her out to dinner more, ask her how her day was and get her flowers now and then. in the long run, much easier and less expensive.... | |||
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Hey No Plea, If you are still around, you might try the common 7.62x39mm in the long barrel Contender. I don't really know if they chamber either it or the 30Carbine, but I would think they would. Some companies have the Lands at 0.311" in the 7.62x39mm and I believe Speer makes both a 150gr and a 180gr Bullet in that size, or they used to. Best to check first before making the decision. Of course if you could get the 7.62x39mm chambered with 0.308" Lands, then there is a bunch of HEAVY 30cal Bullets. And I seem to remember RCBS used to provide both Expander Balls with the 7.62x39mm Dies, but that could be gone away too. But getting the proper Expander Ball would be much less expensive than buying 300Whisper Dies and the Case Volumes should be fairly close. Best of luck to you. ----- EDIT IN: If you do go with one of these, the Standard Twist could be too slow for the HEAVY Bullets. You would need to specify a faster twist barrel and see if they have that available. If not, one of the Custom Houses can do it for you. | |||
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T/C will sell you a 24 inch (or make you a 26 inch) 45/70 barrel in which you could load 500 grain bullets over subsonic charges of fast pistol powder. | |||
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If the need for reduced noise is due to proximity of housing/neighbours etc you need to think long and hard before going the heavy tough bullet at slow speed route. Those muthas keep going for ever In the UK it would be standard to use a normal rifle with a moderator. If wanting realy quiet loads lighter bullets and SR4759 can be used. If it were me I'd go 6.5BR or similar capacity case and get an integral full length moderator from this source www.specialistrifleservices.co.uk/ Nice aren't they! | |||
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I have used an old 8mm mauser to shoot deer with. Used Rem. factory loads and the 29" barrel. My buddy in the field mext to me said it was really quiet. I had plugs in so couldn't tell. | |||
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SLS that stands to reason, as the rem loads are downloaded to .30-30 ballistics. as are fed, win, and pmc. light loads, long barrel, less overbore, it all adds up. and .30-30 ballistics have accounted for a few deer, over the years. | |||
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I have done a lot of deer control shooting in Albemarle County VA in very urban areas. My best producing stand was 1 1/2 miles from the McDonalds Restaurant on Route 250 and Route 29. The rifle of was a Ruger Model 77 Mark II originally in .223 then rebarreled to 7 M/M TCU. Load was H-4895, with the grain weight in the low twenties. Bullets were most often the 140 Nosler BT. Crono speed was 2,275 fps. The bait pile was eight paces from the stand. Shooting rail was 13 feet up in the air. Time of flight of the bullet was very short. The sound was like the droping of a 2x6 on a concrete floor. And the deer all fell in less than 20 feet. Night vision scope used (Gen III). Took over 100 deer from this location and never a comment from a neighbor. When I was in the stand, I could hear a vacume cleaner, a TV set playing and a couple discussing their finances. All were not on the subject property on which I was shooting. Yet no one ever noticed my work. Sincerely, E Pluribus Unum - where out of many, we will become one. | |||
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Hey Virginia Creeper, Excellent First-Hand info. Did the 140gr B-Tips "Exit" at that speed? What length Barrel on the 7mmTCU? | |||
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Having used a Super 14 TC in 7TCU/140gr BT using a fire forming load around 2k, MINE exited on the little buck I shot at 30 yds. Mine was also near populated area, no complaints. | |||
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Gentlemen: Thanks for all of your ideas. I'm going to explore some of them further. More would sure be welcome. As I said, I don't need complete "silence". I just want to have an effective deer cartridge within 150 yds that is no louder than it needs to be. Thanks, again. | |||
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The smaller the caliber the quiter the gun will be for the most part..Hearing protectors come in hearing aid type size and can be worn all day long and you can hear conversation and shoot any rifle... So why must it be quit, are you going to murder someone or are you poaching the kings deer!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Hello Ray! To answer your question: My motives are purely honorable, even altruistic ... absolutely driven by my concern for others ... (1) The hunting area is near some houses and I'd like to get in, harvest/cull deer per the owner's request, and get out without causing any fuss. (2) I know some of the residents and they are likely to complain if their peace is disturbed ... and ... and ... (3) This seems like a good excuse to obtain another firearm and mess around with a new cartridge... not for selfish reasons but for the benefit of the community. Regards -- | |||
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One of my favorite "quiet without a silencer" guns is my custom 27 inch Encore in 44 magnum. It is a 1:14 twist and when I load 240 or 300 bullets at about 1000fps with 231 powder, it is relatively quiet compared to full house loads. You don't need ear protection when plinking for hours on end and it is plenty accurate to hunt with out to 100 - 150 yards like you are wanting. | |||
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.222, .223, or .243 with a long barrel and shoot them in the head. Cheers Hot Head. | |||
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While not quite a 150yd setup, a 45 acp in a rifle running a 270 gr case bullet subsonic would be a very quiet setup, and plenty of power for any deer. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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