Someone at the range who seemed knowledgable said the mil surp 30-06 (Lake City Arsenal) FMJ Ball is 173 gr.

I previously test fired this rifle, Weatherby Vanguard, Leupold VXII 3-9x 40mm, at 25 yrds w/ 150 gr factory ammo. About an inch high, dead centros. Factory ammo, tight group.

Mil surp ammo at 100 yds was 6" high. Spread maybe 2" each side of center. I'm shooting 3 shot groups just to "get on the paper."

Tweek the scope and get it dropped down to the cross lines on the target. But it's shooting flyers, high, low, left, right.

Part of the "problem" with this particular shoot is 6 people waiting to use one bench at a small range. My bench rest and bags are getting "adjusted" by each shooter.

Rifle is heating, cooling, not getting swabbed. 20 rounds over maybe an hour, 90 minutes.

Is mil-surp ammo really that crappy? And how'd we win the war?


-- Ahhhhhhh, but this is "reloading." I have 100 rds, from this stock of surplus brass. 150 gr. Win. bullets -- nothing fancy, trim length on cases varies but still inside max OAL.

4895 Hodgdon, 58 grains.

I'm sure the range shoot is about the ammo.

i'm using the korean import surplus.... 1974... got it from a friend, who bought it from cabela's.... in my garand, i'm getting 2" groups, off the bench, with sandbags.... hot, cold, dirty....in my m70 win, if its on paper, i'm pleased.... my m70 won't shoot the milsurp 150 gr....

quote:

Someone at the range who seemed knowledgable said the mil surp 30-06 (Lake City Arsenal) FMJ Ball is 173 gr.

Modern LC brass (Post 1952 will be non corrosive) could be loaded with any number of bullets. Black tip bullets were armor piercing and weighed around 170 gr. (can't remember exact weight). M2 ball ammo was loaded with 150 gr. bullets and M72 Match was loaded with 173 gr. boattail bullet, but case heads will be marked "LC MATCH 67" (the numbers designate year of mfg.

Most 30-06's will shoot 1-1.5" @ 100 yds w/M2 and usually better w/match or AP.

Most of this ammo was made in the 50's and 60's and some may have some of the bullets "welded" to the case necks due to electrolosis over the long storage period. I have had some match ammo which wouldn't hold 3" @ 100 yards; set my seating die to just "bump" the bullets (seat them just a few thousandths deeper") and improved the accuracy greatly. This is due to the fact that some bullets will be "welded" and others will not, creating differences in pressure required to release the bullets. It is evident which bullets are welded when you push the bullet; some will make a loud cracking noise when bullet breaks free in seating die. You might try "bumping" the bullets and see if accuracy improves.

Regards,
hm

My experiences w/mil-surp 30-06.....

What to expect:
1. Std US mil-spec "M-2 Ball" was mass produced by the zillions.

2. The std stuff was loaded to be able to hold ~4 MOA. Some batches shoot much better, some shoot worse.... Therefore, *Not* good to test out the accuracy potential of your new gun. Try out FGM, BHM, or some other premium target ammo.

3. Unless it says "Match" on the headstamp, it is not.

4. The "Standard" 30-06 M2 ball was 147g.

Brass weirdness:
1. It was manufactured by the zillions. Expect "Production tolerances," not "Match Tolerances"

2. Purchased LC Match brass is usually torn up pretty bad from being fired in gas-guns.

3. Brass wall Thickness can be all over the place -- it was made by the zillions in many many different machines.... This can be a pain for bushing type dies.

4. Concentricity can be a big problem. Standard Mil-spec brass is usually mostly under 0.005" TIR (Lapua I have measured is *All* under 0.002" TIR)

5. It can make some fine reloads.... It is usually easier these days to start with something more friendly -- like purchasing New unfired commercial brass of some sort...... unless you like doing lots and lots and lots of sorting operations.

Best regards

John

US Cal. .30 M1906 bullet = flat base 150 gr.
US Cal. 30 M1 bullet = boattail 174.5 gr.
US Cal. .30 M2 bullet = flat base 152 gr.
US Cal. .30 AP bullet = flat base 168.5 gr.
US Cal. .30 M72 Match bullet= boattail 173 gr.

The 7.62 NATO cartridge went to a flat base 147 gr. bullet.

Regards,
hm

Thank you. I'm guessing it's "all of the above." The brass looks to have been reloaded, and measuring case length, it varies.

I'll get to a range where I can set up and shoot, pay attention to targets -- and next time I'll remember the spotting scope!

Just remember the Army's view of rifle shooting.
Each rifleman has a "field of fire" That's what that ammo was made for

A fellow I worked with was in a helo watching the advance at Granda. As the line of riflemen advanced firing in their field of fire in front of them, the green vegetation vanished.