Hey guys. Newer to reloading and I have been working up loads for my 30'06. So far I have tried Speer 165's and Nosler Ballistic tip 165's. Both charged with IMR 4350 powder.

I have tried a full range of loads and basically my gun hates the Speers at any charge, and at different depths. It shoots ok with 54.5 grs of powder, but that is it. Tried all the way up to 58grs.

My gun loves the Noslers though. It is shooting just under MOA with 54grs at 115 yards. It shooks OK with the other charges, probably around 1.5-1.75".

Here is my question, do I stick with the accurate load at slower speeds, or crank it up a little even though the groups open up so that it shoots flatter? What would you guys do? Is it odd that it shoots best at the lower charges?THANKS!

H4350 is usually THE powder when it comes to the old '06, but I've known a few that preferred other recipes.

First, I think I would try seating depths a bit before giving up on the powder. If that doesn't prove satisfactory, I would go with H4831. I've had great luck with H4831 in all my medium bore cartridges and several of my overbore cartridges like 25-06, 270, etc....
If that doesn't work, I would give some serious thought to checking your bedding, scope mount screws, and scope integrity- in that order. - Sheister

No, it is not odd that the rifle shoots better at lower velocity. Barrels vibrate when a bullet passes down the bore. We look for the sweet spot where the load drives the bullet out the end of the barrel when it is at the apex of it's swing. It is moving less there if not almost stationary. The muzzle swings like a lazzy 8 or infinity sign. the top and bottom ends are the best the middle where it crosses is the point of most movement. The answer to your question I think is this. What speed do you need to get the job done? this applies only to game as paper does not care. An animal will be just as dead at 2600fps as 2900fps and most bullets will perform as intended within published ranges. If one shoots better, you decide what you want and need. JB

I shoot a 165 Rem corelokt with RL-22, 60 or 61gns at about 2730fps. They are accurate, sub 1", in everything I've shot them in. My groups started to open up after 2730ish, so I stopped. I've been thinking of switching to a faster powder and see if I can get good accuracy at around 2900ish. But the 2730 load kills dear and elk just fine.

I choose accuracy over a little more muzzle velocity. If you look at some ballistic tables you'll find that plus or minus a bit more speed is no big deal. If you want higher muzzle velocity go to the 150 grain loads in Nosler. My 30-06 lovre the Noslers and IMR 4350 also.

Thanks for the input. I am working this load up for mulies, as I bowhunt for elk. It was shooting 54grs with the Noslers like my 243. I have never had this gun shoot this good before with factory ammo.

I guess I will try some different powder just to see what happens. This gun is pillar bedded and the barrel is freefloated. Other than that it is factory. I have had several people tell me to try 4350 at 57.5grs and it is supposed to be the magic load. My gun thought otherwise. THANKS!

I seem to be the odd man out on this subject. Accuracy means a lot to me, but it does NOT negate the virtues of velocity. If paper punching is all you want to do, thats another story, I hunt..



If it were my rifle and my dilema it would depend on what the load were intended for. If you were hunting whitetails at no more than 250 yds then I wouldnt give it another thought, but if cross canyon shooting could be possible then Id try another powder.



That is indeed a light load and not at all what an 06 is capable of. I dont think of myself as someone who places velocity over accuracy, but I do expect my rifles to perform up to their potential. I dont try to make them something they are not, but I wont settle for a 30-06 that performs like a 30-40 krag.



One thing I like about having a chronograph is that I found that I had an accurate 06 that was nearly 200 fs slower than what it should be and a 300 savage that shoots the same bullet just as fast and accurate. If I were shooting your light load in my slow 06, Id get "better" velocity from my 300 savage.. And without a chrony Id never know that! Incidentally, that 06 should be back this week with a new bbl.



If you want an idea of what sort of velocities your getting without the expense of a chronograph, then zero your rifle @ 100 yds and get a good group @ 300 yds and measure the amount of drop. Its not nearly as accurate, but can give a good ballpark figure.



On a side note, Ive tried IMR 4350 and W760 in every 06 Ive owned, and each time Ive got equal or better accuracy with the 760 and better velocity EVERY TIME. We dont have real extreme tempratures here, so for my purposes W760 is an outstanding powder. It meters much better than 4350 too.

Thanks, the thing that bothered me about only shooting 54 grains is that the 57 grain charges were hitting probably 2-3 inches higher on the paper which made it obvious that the 54 is a lot slower. I think I am going to buy some RL22, and some 760 and give them a try. I am currently seating these bullets .030" off the lands, and using CCI 200 primers.

I have used H-4350 & 165gr .30 cal Sierra Gameking for several years. I have three 30/06 they all shoot this load very well. Killed many deer with this load & some hunting buddies use the same load. Start with 54 gr. and work up to some where around 56 gr. Get you a Stoney Point OAL
guage and experment with seating depth, this will make
a difference.

ok, good job.. (read on if your going hunting),,... now on to the next step;.. take a 8 1/2 by 11 inch sheet of typeing paper out the the range or where you shoot .. put it out about 200 yards and kneel and shoot it three times.. then take another one and shoot it prone,, then standing.. then off the side of a tree.. try a harris bipod.. etc.. have fun,, .. use the bullet that gives you the most confidence.. now think of this,, your tired, your out of wind, your heart is pumping from excersize, and at dusk out steps a huge buck at 225 yards. your very excited about the whole matter.. lets see what happens now?.. nothing beats experience..... you know duck/ goose hunting starts before big game season, and it really helps get rid of the jitters.. trying to help, not give you greif.. disregard if your not going hunting.. have a nice day.. dave..

I have an '06 that won't shoot 150's at all! The 165gr. and up shoot well enough to hunt with, but my best groups ever in that rifle were with some 190gr. bullets.
Mine shot the 180's nearly as well and the 200gr. were right there too.
Each rifle can be quirky, I don't keep guns that won't shoot. Follow the suggestions on checking out the rifle / scope, play with seating depth, then try different primers. Last I'd switch powders, there are several good choices available.
The different burn rate of powder, ignition of primer, and the longer/shorter bearing surface of different bullets will change the vibration signature. This is the trouble of having a barrel that only has one sweet spot! Some will find that only one type of bullet will shoot well, or one weight with a particular powder. If you can, have a gunsmith recrown the barrel. It may be a poorly done crown, wouldn't be the first time.

ANY group under 2" is OK for most hunting needs. But I always opt for the most accurate load, providing it is in the velocity range necessary for the hunting conditions it will be used under. If you will be shooting game at 250 yards or less, the extra 150 or so FPS you get from the less accurate load is not much of a velocity advantage!



With the 54 grain load of IMR 4350, you are probably getting +-2700 FPS with the 165-grain bullet. That's plenty fast enough for any reasonable range out to at least 300 yards!

Most times you will experience your best accuracy at max, or just below max charge weight. As for powder, I think RL22 is too slow burning. I'd try RL19 first. I also am a fan of WW 760. A neat idea that Hodgdon came out with is their Experimental Pack. Four 4 ounce jars for a 1 pound price. The hunter rifle pack includes; Varget, H4895, H414(my personal favorite) and H4350. I'm sure you'll find something there that will work.
CCI 200 primers work just fine. Changing brand or going to a mag primer would be my last resort.

You can probaly get both !
I have used IMR-4350 in lots of 30,06s over the years, and never had a one that did not like it. I sugjest you go back to your top load ,and if there are no preasure signs, start working up in half grain increments. Only need to load three at a time to get a good idea if this is going to work. I use this method. Load three at a half grain increase and three more at another half grain. and sometimes I load one more a half grain higher just as a preasure test.My GUESS is that like many rifles those groups will start to shrink again at some point. (notice guess is capitalized but it an edjucated guess)also I would try a flatt base bullet if you have not, Many rifles prefer them ...tj3006

Somebody on the old Shooters board (I've forgotten who) used to repeat this mantra: "Does the animal care how fast the bullet was going when it missed it?"

You have gotten a lot of good responses from knowledgeable Rifle Men. I have a different understanding of the word accuracy as apposed to repeatability. If the first shot out of a cold rifle while hunting deer, elk, moose etc.,hits very close to where you want the bullet to go every time you fire it cold ,that to me is accuracy.If you are a desent shot the large percentage of the time you don't need a second shot. Varmint hunting demands accuracy and repeatability as does gratification while shooting paper.

If the 30-06 shoots to the same point every time cold and it is where you intend it, I'd say you had an adequate hunting rifle when using a full load of 4350. Most people don.t shoot fully loaded 165 grain bullets from an 06 at varmints or 40 rounds of the same off the bench.

Now, if you just want to play, experiment, or advance your loading skills follow the recommendations you have received so far. roger

I'll vote for the accuracy unless you are losing significant velocity, say >200 f.p.s. My '06 also likes the partitions, 180gr., 1 inch MOA at 100 yds, just over 2600 fps.

With 150s and 165s in 30-06, you can have both speed and accuracy with H414. With a burning rate similar to the 4350s, you can run the loads right up to the top end with out a sudden pressure spike. It is not hard to make 3000fps with 150s, and at that speed they will leave BIG holes in deer. I still load this powder with 165 gr ballistic tips in 30-06, but don't use it on heavier bullets as there are better choices out there.

Having read all the answers to your post, there isn't much I can say. However, I would like to comment on that 165 gr. Speer bullet. Assuming you were shooting the flat based Hot-core, I have a Rifle in .308 Win., a Ruger RSI with an 18.5" barrel. Actually, I have three of them in .308. What can I say. Like the short Mannlicher stocked guns.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is these rifles are a BITCH got get to shoot tight groups. I won't go into the details of what it took to fine a fairly decent load, but only two bullets ever shot well in that rifle, one the 180 gr. Sierra round nose and the other, the 165 gr. Speer Hot-Core. While the 180 gr. bullet was the tighter grouper, shot distance was too long for that bullet to be first choice. That left the Speer 165 gr. bullet. I finally got the rifle to shoot 1.25-15.0" groups using W-760. Velocity from that short barrel was 2550 FPS, no barn burner. The same load from a 22" barreled .308 did 2610 FPS, a difference of 60 FPS. Every deer shot with that rifle has been a one shot kill. Only one bullet has ever been recovered. It retained 65 percent of it's original weight and had an advertising executive's dream of a mushroom. This bullet hit a deer hed on, travled a bit of a roundabout route through a large mule deer that was standing, facing me at 250 yards, laser measured before the shot. The rifle was sighted in three inches high at one hundred yards.
My thoughts are this. If your hottest load will group at 1.50" at 100 yards, then that load is accurate enough for a big mule or whitetail deer out to any reasonable range a hunter should shoot to.
The suggestion to shoot at an 8.5x11" piece of paper is a damn good idea. Try running either 100 yards or 200 steps running in place, then get into each various shooting position and shoot three rounds into the paper. Do a run before going to the next group. Only shoot at game at the distance you can keep all three shots on that paper. If you want to make it tougher, use an 8" paper plate.
The one thing I know for sure. Put that 165 gr. Speer in the right plave and you'll be eating liver that night.
Paul B.

Dog, with one exception, I've never gotten exceptional accuracy out of Speer bullets. I much prefer Hornady and Sierra or Remington as 2nd choice.

For powders, add 4831 and 4064 to your inventory. Both are super /06 powders.

One of the great delights of reloading is that you can experiment. Your imagination is the limit. Enjoy it and don't get depressed in the fact that not every load you create is a winner. Some just aren't and some guns have their own "personality" about what they like and don't like.

Know thyself.
Know thy gun.

Dogcatcher,

168 combined tec BST same as BT

2700fps 200yd zero 300yd drop -8.32 energy 1798

2850fps 200yd zero 300yd drop -7.21 energy 2023

Nothing except the animal on the other side of it would ever notice the difference. If you can tell the difference in 1.11" at 300yds you're better'n me. capt david

Thanks for all the input. I do have a Stoney Point OAL and have tried the speers at different seating depths and they still won't shoot very good. The groups are just really erratic.

I am seating the bullets on the noslers at .030 off the lands. I think I will try some other powders at the same seating depth just to see if there is an accurate load at faster speeds. I could always use my Ruger 25'06 which I know is fast and flat, but my 30'06 has been my big game gun for 17 years. He has killed 3 mulies for me that go over 190 gross. All of them killed with Remington Corelokt 180 factory loads. They shot OK, but not great. Hoping to find a load my gun really likes. I have killed 3 mulies over 300 yards, just wanting to prepare for the long shots, and hope for the short shots. Thanks again for all the technical input.

A lot of times it is the weight of the bullet that is most critical. If you are not opposed, go to the 180s and try powder like RL22 starting out with the bullet close to the lands.

I've loaded my 30.06 for 12 yrs now. I have had extreme success with the following: 156 Nosler Ballistic Tip, Federal Match primers, WW brass. Redding benchrest seating die. As I seat the bullet, I start it slowly, then withdraw, spin the case 1/3 turn, do it again, then repeat, then finally seat the bullet the rest of the way...

IMR and H4350, near minimum load with the IMR, near max with the Hodgdon.

IMR 4064 1 grain less than max.

Re 22, 2 grains less than max, but now I use a magnum primer...for whatever reason, this has always been the most accurate powder for me in my .06, in 165, 180 weights.

Varget, didn't matter what the charge, all grouped under 1.3" 6 shot strings, with 5 minute upright barrel cooling.

doc.

Thanks Doc. I am going to try some different powders. How far off the lands are you seating it?

If I remove one floater from my 5 shot group, all 4 other holes are touching and it groups 1/2". This is with the IMR at 54 grains. Largest group was 1.28" with 57 grains.

What primers are you guys using?

I have been loading the 30-06 for a few years and i am stuck on IMR 4064 with WLR primer. it is a med. slow burn. but it gives great accurate loads. try 50 to 52 grains with 150 grain sierra B.T. I load 52 with WLR primer at about 2850 fps with less than 1 in. groups at 100 meters.