Been using a friend chrony with my reloads using Nosler latest reloading book and worked my way up to Nosler's max load
while using exact components and for some reason unknown, I cannot acheive there "advertised" velocity and the chrony reads 2730 F.P.S. +/- 17 F.P.S.!
Ins't this a little slow with a 26 inch barrel?
Was I lied to by Nosler?

Then I tried my friend reload which uses 175 grain partition, 64 grains of IMR 7828, Norma brass which is stamp weatherby for a 7mm Rem mag
and Federal mag primer, the velocity is 2720 +/- 22 F.P.S.

Perhaps I lied to by the Ammunition company, gun writers and Remington?

Anybody out there get 3000 F.P.S. using 175 grain Nosler Partition proof with a Chrony?
If so what are your reload recipe

Now I'm curious about using 160 grain Nosler!

http://stevespages.com/7mmmag2.html

By The Way ... useful loading range for the 175 and IMR-7828 is from 51.5 grains to 68.5 grains with a CCI-200 primer.

[ 05-05-2003, 23:23: Message edited by: ricciardelli ]

Welcome to the I wish I never chrony'd my 7mm Mag club

When i first got my chrony, I tested my load I'd been using for moose, deer, and bear the previous 3 years (with great results BTW). Straight from the Nosler #4, 160 gr. Partiton Gold, 63.0 grs. RL22, supposed to do 3060 fps/24", I got 2750 fps/26" barrel .

Here is a 175 gr. Partition load with IMR 7828 I tried a few weeks ago.

175 gr. Nosler Partition @ 3.38"
63.5 grs. IMR 7828
CCI 250 mag primer
R-P nickel case
~
2756 fps avg. for 11 shots/26" barrel.

here's another load I tried

160 gr. Speer Boat Tail
70.0 grs. RL25
CCI 250 mag primer
R-P case
~
2908 fps avg./26" barrel (supposed to do 3000+ according to Speer #13)

Me thinks that the 7mm Rem needs large doses of H4831, RL22, 7828, H1000, & RL25 to get 3000 fps+ w/ 160 gr., and to reach 2950 fps+ w/ 175 gr. Never tried it myself though, I don't use my 7mm Mag much anymore.

[ 05-06-2003, 01:43: Message edited by: todbartell ]

In all the loading manuels I've read there is usually a comment that their data is a guide, meaning not the last word. Some use sporters, which sometimes are slightly overbored. Some have more generous throats than others. Some use match grade barrels which are cut to minimum tolerances. The point is the data is a guide.
I do my load development on hot days. The warmest I intend to hunt in. I run my ammo up to where I get some small pressure indications. Then I back off a full 5%. Then I look, usually lower still, for an accurate load. When I select my rifles, I go for a cartriage choice that will easily give me both the velocity I want and has a good chance of giving me the accuracy I want. This is often 1-3 grains under the maximum listed load. I take an average of the loading data listed and buy or build the rifle I want.
I suggest you try different powders and try going, carefully, beyond the listed maximums. If you don't get the velocity you want, then I suggest you have someone rechamber your rifle for the 7 mm STW round. E

My boxes of 175gr Winchester and Remington ammo both state 3070fps, but I honestly doubt that it's that fast. I've measured some of my handloads for 160gr. Speers, pushed along by 64.0gr (Max) of IMR4831 and get 2950fps. Maybe another slower powder would get you that extra little bit. I'm not sure. Maybe Norma205 will do it. I doubt very much if the VihtaVouri 560 will make it although it's one very accurate powder. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

I have never, ever, ever been close to Nosler's velocity findings no matter what the caliber!

I just use them as a reference only. Hornady manuals have worked better for me.

My speedy 7mm rem mag load is 72.5 gr H1000 with 162 Hornady BTSP...3100 fps.

[ 05-06-2003, 02:52: Message edited by: POP ]

Steve Ricciardelli,
I like your 7mm rem mag story about free Nosler bullets,
was it John Nosler that gave you those free bullets?
You mentioned 63.2 grains of Reloader 22 with 175 grain Nosler bullets
but you not mentioned what primer you were using, so what primers were they?
What was the barrel length of that Ruger when you chrony your loads?

Eremicus,
I'm thinking about the 7mm STW but hey maybe Nosler is lying about 7STW velocity as well.
Here's a example, Nosler list the 7mm Rem Mag velocity of 2970 FPS shooting a 175 grain bullet using a max load of 62.5 grains of RL22 with a 81% load density which is also suppose to be the accurate as well.
Now lets flip a couple page to 7mm STW, Nosler list the 7mm STW max velocity of 2921 FPS shooting a 175 grain bullet using a max load of 67.0 grains of RL22 with a 84% load density or how about this one, 175 grain using a max load of 74.0 grains of H1000 with a 93% load density at 3008 FPS
Let's see 7mm Rem Mag @ 2970 FPS with RL22
7mm STW @2921 FPS with RL22
7mm STW @3008 FPS with H1000

My thought's, 3008 FPS - 2970 FPS = 38 FPS difference? Sound like a great improvment to you?

Now I'm curious about a 7mm/338 RUM or perhaps a 7mm RUM.

I'm sure some of you are wandering why am I shooting 175 grain instead of 160 grains, the reason is, I hunt heavy bodied roosevelt elk in the timber and clear cuts.

Eremicus,
Oop's look like I posted 7mm Weatherby load data instead of the "actual" 7mm STW load data.
Well anyway here's the corrected 7mm STW load data from Nosler

using 175 grain Nosler partition with 89.0 grains of AA8700 @3047 FPS with a load density of
100%

or

175 grain bullet Nosler Partition with 69.5 grains of RL22 @ 2968 FPS with a load density of 78%

So let see, 3047 FPS (7mm STW) - 2970 FPS (7mm Rem Mag) = 77 FPS difference.
Still not appealing to me as a conversion velocity wise.

FWIW, my 24" 7mm Rem Mag 700 does 3325 with 67 grs. of IMR4350 over a 140 Ballistic Tip,Checked on two chronys.I had it up to 3375 with 68 grs. but it was a bit hot and it shot better at 67 grs.Only 175's I loaded were CoreLocts with H870 and I never chronyed them.Maybe I should just to see.

Norseman-You say that your components were exact.How can you be sure that the lot numbers were the same for your powder and theirs?Different lots of the same powder can cause velocity differences that I have seen amount to 100fps in certain instances.Your rifle barrel is not the one they used.Even if it was the same length and manufacture there still could be differences that cause velocity variations.These variations in guns and components are the reason that loading manual velocities and maximum loads should only be used as rough estimates and never as fact.The chronograph is the only way to know what your actual velocity is reguardless of what manuals or computer programs say it should be.

I have no idea who it was...all I know is that he drove a white Chevy, so I named him "The Lone Ranger", or maybe it was "The Lone Stranger".

As for barrel length, it was 24".

For primers, I used Remington 9-1/2M for the Nosler loads, but I used CCI-200 (even use them with the Nosler and there is no real difference).

There is a difference with the Sierra 168 HPBT however...

and THAT is my favorite load.

Gentlemen,

I have chronographed several 3000 fps loads with a 175 gr. bullet from my 24" barrelled Ruger M77 MkII. I might just have a fast barrel, but I know that with 66.0 gr. of IMR-7828 and a CCI-250 primer, I usually get over 2950 fps, and 66.0 gr. IMR-7828 and a 175 gr. Speer GS is about 3010 fps.

That being said, I sure killed a lot of game very dead with my "pre-chronograph" loads that I thought were doing 2970 fps, and were really doing 2750 fps. That seemed to work pretty well too.

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

I would add to all this discussion (on target by the way) that I have never met anyone in my years of shooting that has honestly gotten the velocity listed in the Nosler manuals.

What I do, and I use Nosler bullets in my "do-all" rifle, is find a load that shoots well, accurate and consistent with no pressure warnings, and I load that up - then I break out the chronograph.

As Elmer Keith said "You can't argue with meat!"

Dead is dead, so do we really need to reach maximum velocity? I think not, if it works don't fix it.

I to have noticed this difference from published
velocity data but I've found that I get fairly
close to the stated velocities of the Lee manual.
For example: they list the 168gr jacketed with
72.0gr H-1000 at 3010fps and a starting weight of
67.0gr. My results:
67.0gr. 2,760 fps
68.0gr. 2,807 fps (best groups 0.86")
69.0gr. 2,835 fps (groups 1.25")
70.0gr. 2,874 fps (groups open to 2.5")
71.0gr. 2,914 fps ( stiff bolt and 3.0" groups)
72.0gr. Not tested
This was 10 ft. from a CED chronograph so I figured actual muzzle velocities were probably
50 or 60fps higher than readings and about in line
with the manual's stated. This was from a 26" bbl
Browning A-bolt. I have not tested any 175gr yet
but Lee manual shows 72.0gr H-1000 at 2,949fps and
I would bet that is close. I get very close to the
Speer stated velocity with Speer 160 BTSP of
2,936 with 69.0gr H-1000 and best groups at 70.0gr
of H-1000 for 2,934 fps chronographed. I was a
little disappointed with actual velocities but I
am convinced that faster is not always better
especially if you miss the aim point and the bullet comes apart at close range. BLR7

I have to concur with jrslate. I recently stumbled upon the combination of 66 grains of IMR 7828 with a 175-grain bullet. It gives fantastic accuracy and speed out of my supposedly shot-out Sako. I can't wait to try hunting with it!

Norseman, all I can tell you is there is a difference in rifles. Pretty tough to get over 2900 fps. with the Nosler 175 gr. Partition in a 7 mm Mag. If you have a 24 inch barrel, I'd say you wouldn't get anything significant with the 7 STW.
I've got an article here by a guy with the same 7 mm Mag. problem. He reports finally getting 3088 fps. with the Speer Mag-Tip bullet out of his 24 inch Rem 700, 7 mm Magnum after much experimenting. Federal or Winchester cases, Fed. 215 primers and 72 grs. of H1000. He, too, had your velocity problems. Speer says lots of variation in 7 mm Mag rifles. They (manuel #12) list only 65 grs. of H1000 as their top load for 2782 fps. Their top powders were H870 at 78 grs for 2954, and Re22 at 61 grs. for 2830 fps. Speer used Remington brass, which doesn't hold as much powder and CCI 250 primers, which aren't as hot as Fed 215's. So, start plenty low and try working up.
I also suggest you use a different bullet. Either the Barnes X, or the Swift-A-Frame. Both will retain 90-100% of their weight, vs. 2/3's for the 175 gr. Partition. Barnes say their 160 gr. X can be pushed to 3000 fps. with 80 grs. of H870, 2921 with 69 grs. of H1000, 2922 with 66 grs. of IMR 7828, and 2933 with 63 grs. of Re-22. Remington cases and Rem 9 1/2 M primers. 24 inch barrel. All of these are top loads. Their starting loads are 5 grs. lower. E

There does seem to be a wide variation in loading data for a 7mm Mag. One possible cause is the variation in case brand, as a R-P case has considerably smaller volume than a Win. This has to be taken in consideration when comparing velocities to load data. It isn't very hard to reach 2900-2950 with a 175 Partition. My old Sako uses RL-22 66 gr to reach 2920, this isn't a hot load in my rifle with Winchester cases, Rem cases hold almost 1.5-2 gr less, can't remember, haven't loaded any lately. This load also will shoot .600 for 5 shots, it goes without saying that I shoot this load a lot. H870, RL25, 7828 should all get you to 2900 fps with virtually no case head expansion. Personally, I think so many manuals are loaded down so much (I suppose worry about lawsuits) that they create a more dangerous situation when beginners and others assume they can always run a couple or three grains above the stated max. Maximum pressure needs to be determined in a particular rifle by checking head expansion with a michrometer, and watching for other pressure signs. I sure wouldn't want anyone to just read my load, grab some bullets and start loading without working slowly up to it and using common sense.

My experience with the 7 mag was that the lighter bullets (120 & 140) velocity was doable or matchable with the manuals. When you got up to the 175 grainers it was darn tough--just like you guys are posting.

Kinda makes the need for a guy with a 30-06 to "move up" to the 7 mag for big game kind of arguable doesn't it!!

Before I rechambered my #1S to 7mm Dakota, I used to load 64.5gr RL22 under a 160grNP for 3050fps from the 26" bbl. Some bbls. are just slow, some are a bit faster than others. It sounds like your's is a bit slow.

I use the load formulae in the several reloading books but I view the velocity as merely fill-up-space numbers that are applicable to nothing. I do not drive my 160's nor 175's at 3000fps by any road. I doubt that any game animal can discern the difference in being hit by a bullet at 2900fps vice 3000fps. Nor do I believe there is a hunter among us that can detect the difference in trajectory between 2700fps and 3000fps at 300yards. I would much prefer to be able to get off a follow shot, if needed, than wrestle with a sticky bolt because of a hot load.

I guess I'll have to break out the ole chronograph and check out my 160gr. partitions.

I'll let you guys know what I get.

HBL

From my experience with the 175's I use 7828 and you can push it between the low 29's and to asmuch as 3050, this with a 24" tube. This finding is from several different tubes.

I've used that bullet quite a bit in the 7 rem and in my 7 Mashburn's, great bullet!! (Noz Pat that is)

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Norseman,

Not to be coy but why use a heavy for caliber bullet? If you want more velocity move up to a 300 win mag and use a heavier bullet.

I use a 127gr EXP Groove Bullet out of my 7mm mag. Here is my load data.

7mm mag, 24" barrel
127gr EXP Groove Bullet
73gr of Rel 22, no pressure signs at all
CCI-BR2 Primer
Win Case, OAL = 3.360"
.015" off the lands
3 shot groups average 5/8"
Average measured velocity = 3440 FPS

300 win mag, 26" barrel
159gr EXP Groove Bullet
79gr of Rel 22, no pressure signs at all
CCI-BR2 Primer
Norma Case, OAL = 3.505"
.015" off the lands
3 shot group = 3/8"
Average measured velocity = 3410 FPS

Have a good one,

Don

Where do I sign up for the "wish I'd never chronied my 7mag club"?

I have a hard time getting to 3000 with 154 gr. Hornadies.....

One thing, my Weatherby brass is by far heavier than the other brass. Federal is lighter, and winchester is lighter yet. FWIW, Dutch.

Here's the reason I never bought a 7MM Rem. Magnum.

160 gr. (7MM) Nosler Partition Bullet
55 grs. IMR 4350
Rem. Cases.
CCI LRP
Chrono'd 2,931 FPS

Caliber? .280 Remington
Rifles: Remington Mdl. 725, 22" bbl.
Pachmayr Custom .280 Rem., 22" Apex bbl.

I've killed elk, Mule and whitetail deer, antelope, and Black bear, with those two rifles, without any trouble at all.

Not too much a 7MM Rem. Mag. will do, that I can't do as well with my 22" bbl .280 Rem. I bought the Mdl. 725 in 1961, and later, nearly bought the "new" 7MM Mag. -- until -- I chrono'd a friend's, and didn't see enough difference, practical field difference, to make the switch.

If I were to want to use the 175 gr. bullets, perhaps that might have been a different matter, but the 160 gr. Nosler Partitions, and the 139 Gr. Hornady Interloks and 140 Gr. Nosler Partitions do it all for me, in the 7MM slot.

Just my opinion and experience.

FWIW. L.W.

[ 05-10-2003, 02:20: Message edited by: Leanwolf ]

Just for the record...I chrono'd Federal's Premium 160 grain Nosler loads in a friends 24" barreled Weatherby Vanguard. They averaged 2,950 fps. I've always though too that a 22" inch barreled .30-06 getting 2,750 fps or so with a 180 grain Nosler partition was a better, handier package than a heavier 7MM Rem. Mag. with 175's getting maybe just a bit more velocity. Bigger hole too!

Rich Elliott

Well I have chrony'd the Federal Premium 160 gr. Nosler load too, and it did an average of 2850 fps out of my 26" barrel. I pulled one apart, and it had 66 grs. of powder, which looked similar to 7828.

Out of a friends 7mm Rem Mag 24" M700 stainless, we've tried the following loads:

150 gr. Ballistic SilverTip @ 3.35" OAL
68.0 grs. IMR 7828
~
3065 fps avg.
&
150 gr. Ballistic SilverTip @ 3.35" OAL
73.0 grs. RL 25
~
3130 fps avg.

Might want to try the Barnes 140 gr. XLC. It should go at least 3100 fps, and you won't give up much game performance to a 175 gr. Partition.