Went to the SHOT show last week...AMAZING.

The amount of traffic and activity was heavy. I called Fiocchi for some ammo for this year. They had what I needed shotshellwise. The .380 ACP I have had on backorder for 1 year is nowhere to be seen.

The show was good for them and they've basically sold all they can manufacture through 2011. Metallic stuff.

I'm guessing demand is still incredibly high for all of the manufacturers of ammo and components and we haven't seen the end of this.

Although we're at the end of the supply chain, I think I agree with you. Basically, we have 3 suppliers of components, one being Sportsman's. They have virtually NO IMR powders, some Alliant and some Hodgdon's. As to primers, they've had Some small pistol mag. and quite a few shotgun primers. The other 2 suppliers are about in the same boat but I have seen some CCI LR primers on their shelves.
It's gonna be a long time boys, so hunker down. My opinion is we should kick every one of the butt heads in Congress out. Republican, Dimocrap, Socialist & Independant. I don't believe for a minute that ALL of the primer production is going into ammo to wax the rag heads. Just my opinion.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

I'm guessing demand is still incredibly high for all of the manufacturers of ammo and components and we haven't seen the end of this.

Listening to the reviews of the Telepromptident's rambling, unfocused blatherings, I'm thinking we won't be looking at any Freedom-control laws for several years to come. The Mombasa Manchild is losing respectability and credibility by the minute. His Gestapocrat conspirators in Congress know the warrants are out for their political suspension-by-rope from the Tree of Liberty come November. So there he is, trying to recapture the glory days of the campaign when he was God-- or thought he was. But many of the brain-dead dolts who voted for him (save for Don) have awakened and discovered their Messiah is a phony, a joke, a lie, a stuffed shirt, an empty suit, just words, just speeches read from a teleprompter. Until the Spendocrats get their heads out of their asses obamas with this mad rush to destroy Freedom with the weapon that is Mengelecare and get a clue that tax cuts create jobs, we won't see any gun-control crap coming down the pike. But to the Dimbulbocrats, getting the tyranny that is nazional healthscare passed and getting their hooks into your life, for the rest of your life, is paramount. Once they get that, you watch stuff come down the line that would have Jefferson and Adams walk down to the House and personally put a slug into anyone who would dare to propose stuff like we're going to see very shortly after Kenyaloser signs the bill...

So, What's your point?.

quote:

Originally posted by hawkins:
So, What's your point?.

..that he is an ideologue who cannot distinguish between the tangible and intangible
It would also appear that he forgot which forum he was on

I would take anything a manufacturer's representative (of any product) says about future supply with a very large grain of salt. It's their job to get the potential buyer to believe that their product is (1) relatively scarce, so that (2) the buyer will be willing to pay more, and (3) buy more of it.

Do you really expect a manufacturer to say "yeah, we're gonna have this stuff running out of our asses, no need to hurry, you can get all you want, and for a lot less if you wait a while"?

A couple of years ago cement supplies were tight. I had a small project and called a ready mix company and was told that since I was not a "regular customer" they would have to "pull some out of our allocation", but that it would cost me an extra $10/yard. I guess that they felt sorry for me and decided to sell it to me instead of a "regular customer". Yeah, right.

Go back to Fiocchi, who has "sold all they can manufacture through 2011" and tell them you need some ammunition. They'll have to "pull it out of their allocation", I'm sure.

Now that Uncle Sam has cut way back on how much lead and brass it is spraying across the countrysides of Asia Minor, and most of the hoarders have empty wallets and full closets, the only thing that can happen to munitions supplies is to increase. The manufacturers are smart enough not to make enough of it to ruin their market, but along with an increase in supplies will come an easing of prices.

Stonecreek,

I'm not a customer of Fiocchi; I shoot for them. The information is fact.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I would take anything a manufacturer's representative (of any product) says about future supply with a very large grain of salt. It's their job to get the potential buyer to believe that their product is (1) relatively scarce, so that (2) the buyer will be willing to pay more, and (3) buy more of it.

Do you really expect a manufacturer to say "yeah, we're gonna have this stuff running out of our asses, no need to hurry, you can get all you want, and for a lot less if you wait a while"?

A couple of years ago cement supplies were tight. I had a small project and called a ready mix company and was told that since I was not a "regular customer" they would have to "pull some out of our allocation", but that it would cost me an extra $10/yard. I guess that they felt sorry for me and decided to sell it to me instead of a "regular customer". Yeah, right.

Go back to Fiocchi, who has "sold all they can manufacture through 2011" and tell them you need some ammunition. They'll have to "pull it out of their allocation", I'm sure.

Now that Uncle Sam has cut way back on how much lead and brass it is spraying across the countrysides of Asia Minor, and most of the hoarders have empty wallets and full closets, the only thing that can happen to munitions supplies is to increase. The manufacturers are smart enough not to make enough of it to ruin their market, but along with an increase in supplies will come an easing of prices.

There are a number of reasons why the stuff we want is scarce. In part it has to do with customers buying it up when they see it. I normally would not have bought primers by the thousand, but I don't want to be out and can't find them. That is what a lot of people are doing. I am not saying that there are not other reasons.

I called Hornady some months ago to inquire about the constant rising costs of ammo, primers, brass, etc. I was transferred to Jason Hornady. He explained their price increases and it had no reflection of the store prices. I am convinced that they (and other manufacturers) are not the major problem, but some of the suppliers/retailers are. The Gander Mountain store near me is off the chart with their prices. I can buy certain Nosler bullets for $33.00 at some places and I believe Gander wants $49.99.

I know these comments won't do any good right now, but some folks might want to remember the gist of them somewhere in the future....

Ever hear the phrase "buy low, sell high"? Well, I have always operated on the principle that if you buy really low, you may never have a reason or need to sell.

In the same vein, there are "hoarders" and "accumulators". Hoarders are folks who wait until something is scarce, and then try to buy a bunch of it in fear it may disappear altogether.

Believe me when I tell you that Hoarders aren't able to "buy low". They have their timing back-axxwards.

Accumulators are those who REGULARLY buy slightly more than they need when supplies are plentiful and prices low. They buy even more when prices are at the "clear the decks" level and folks are almost giving the stuff away.

The accumulators end up with stacks of supplies around because because they never used up all of one supply purchase before they over-bought the next batch of supplies.

Example: For about 10 years at our local club gun shows (2 per year) Winchester and Federal rifle primers were always available from a guy who worked all the bigger Left coast shows, for $10-to $12 per thousand. So, every show, I bought at least 20,000 of them; once in a while more.

One time, another guy also offered me somewhere over 50,000 primers from the 1930s & '40s for $3.00 per thousand. (He got them virtually free as part of an estate he had bid on and got.) The primers were old enough no one else wanted them, even though inspection showed none of them to be either corrosive or mercuric. I bought them all and got a discount down to $100 ($2.00 per thousand) for taking the risk of their still being good and still buying all of them. They turned out to be fine and I shot them for several years, sold some to friends, and still have some of them left.

I was shooting a LOT, and loading for over 100 different chamberings, but I still wasn't using anywhere near 40,000 rifle primers per year by myself. Usually had about 30,000 per year left over. After 10 years of that, quit buying rifle primers altogether.

Have now been shooting for another 8 years without buying a single primer. Have enough still on hand to last me the rest of my life and then some. (No, none are for sale.)

Did the same thing with powder, except paid even less for it by shopping "surplus" specials, etc.

Ditto with bullets. Looked around my shop the other day and noticed I still have about 70 or so 50-cal GI cans full of bullets ("tips", not cartridges) stacked against one wall....and I haven't bought a single bullet of those diameters or single can of ANY powder in the last 8 years either.

i don't know what is causing the present shortage, or when or if it will ever end. But you know what? I Really don't care, either. I spent moderate amounts of money regularly to build up a goodly supply , back when manufacturers and sellers were over-producing and needed my little bits of money. I helped them, and they (without knowing it) helped me.

Now with their shortages and sky-high prices, I don't need THEM.

Remember, buy low enough, often enough, regularly enough when the supply is bigger than the market and prices are LOW, and one day you may never want or need to sell....OR buy, ever, again.

not only that but....
there are still components left on the shelf.
in the stores and yours.
i don't think i could go the rest of my life with my components,but whatever shortage there was didn't slow down my shooting at all and wouldn't for quite some time.
if i go in and there ain't primers i buy powder.
no powder then brass.
if none of the above then i open a bag on the top shelf and use that and make note of what i need for later.
it might help if i didn't need stuff for 40 diff cals.
anyways im going back to casting now.

I stopped at a sporting goods store in Montana a few days ago and they had lots and lots of Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primers on hand. But no regular large rifle primers at all. The guy told me things are "spotty" meaning that they will get in a bunch of one thing or another, but never all of the things that are on order at one time.

I thought that 3.70 per hundred was a bit high, considering that I used to pay $1.50 for a hundred.

Also spoke to a guy from Federal at the SCI convention. He said Federal was starting a new primer line to meet demand.

The shortage of ammo & loading components in Kalif. is not getting better. The recent law banning mail order sales of ammo in 2011 will only make this all worse. Like Canuck I buy when I find decent deals. I have always maintained a 5K min per size primer supply. When I dip into my 5K brick of primers, I order up another 5K min. I have not had to slow my shooting or pay stupidly high prices since PBO was elected (don't kid yourselves, he is the primary reason we have been in shrotage mode). I see some stuff coming around on the internet & some guys talk about being able to get what they want, but it's very loacation specific. I also do not see it ending anytime real soon. Maybe after the Nov. elections, maybe.

I am a relative newby compared to Alberta Canuck, but I did realize that things were going to get pricy and maybe even hard to find as time marched on. This was my 5 years ago philosophy. 5 years ago in Canada the cheapest primers you could find were 28.00 per 1000, now they are in the $47.00 per 1000. We haven't seen a Federal Branded LR primer for more than 2 years.
The best deal on powder was from a repackager in Ontario, basically 7 pounds of most anything from WW,IMR of Hogd, was 161.00. So all I did was look for the most popular powders and I bought 6 or 7 of these boxes. Heck I bought a box of LilGun for Hornet 3 years before I bought a Hornet. when most of Can had no Varget I had some.
So my $ 1500.00 investment 5 years ago has done one helluva a lot better than it would have done in any bank. FS

I'm in Kalif also and i'll say spotty is the word on primers were I buy but I will say I saw my first Fed 215 Gold Medal in a long time $37-1000, powder and brass has been real steady maybe a 2-3 week BO on 4-5 of the real hard to get stuff and in most cases it was a day or two on the 8lbs vs the 1lbs that tells me the mfg don't want to screw with the 1lbs vs the 8's.

I'm in the boat that I cast 90% of my pistol stuff and have for years and a few rifle like 30carb 44 25-20.

I bought buckets of powder literly (great price) from a guy who was going to mfg custom reloads of rifle ammo Bus. never got off the ground heck I even turned an AR buddy onto a bucket of it.

At my age i'm set for life with what I have and have done very well on buying close outs and going out of Bus. specials.

I still have a 5gal bucket that I have never went thru of mixed bullets from Sierra when they moved from Ca.to Mo.

The supply of most componets is getting a little better. By the end of the spring it will be much better as orders begin to catch up and people would usually buy 1k quit buying 10k of primer for example.


Yes I am aware of several companies who sold out 2010 production even before the SHOT and it remains to be seen if all of the orders stay firm. Hope so as it is good for the industry but the downside is when this pent up demand is satisfied the supply side will not be proportionate and that will not be good. The sale of Black guns has really slowed and there have been layoffs at Remington for example.