After seeing old farts post on the accubond I want to post the test I did last thur with the Hornady SST interbond. here's some pics.






Test set-up was four water-filled gallon milk jugs set end to end in front of a box of rags,(in case the bullet went through all 4 jugs). This was at 100 yds at a 15 foot chrongraph velocity of 2966 fps from my Browning 300 WSM. Using the 165 grain bullets.

All three stopped in the third jug. The first one was blown into 6-8 pieces, the second was split in half, the third had a small hole in it.

Retained weight was 139.6, 144.6 and 146.0 for from 83% to 88%. Expansion was .775, .800 and .759. The tapered jacket stops expansion a little sooner than what I see on the accubond.

Whatever the bonding process is it flat out works! There was no letting go of the lead from the jacket.

Groups run around 1 inch with 66.0 grains of R-19, norma brass wwlrp

That's outstanding expansion but it does bring up the point of how deep they will penetrate due to that expansion. For deer sized game that seems like a very deadly bullet. The X bullets don't expand to anywhere near that diameter. Of course they penetrate deeper due to that.

grizz,
Nice work! You showed me enough to try the interbounds. Hopefully my rifle likes them.

Thanks guys. Savage, considering the weight retention, I believe they should penetrate quite well. It seems the initial expansion occurs quite early. I would guess judging by the appearance of the jugs that it was fully expanded in the first jug.

In a deer or elk that means the lungs would be turned to mush, with the bullet exiting to the off side. I would like to shoot some leg bones or something akin to that to see if it will hold together in a missplaced shot in the shoulder.

Ed, the first load workup in the 300 WSM yielded a 1 inch group @ 100 yds. Although not at top velocity. I went up to 69.0 of R-19 but it was wild in a 3" vertical string.

At the same time I shot these tests, I was running a work up with H4831 SC. The top load,(69.0) went out at 2975 with a little over 1 inch. I've had the 165 SST up to 3125, so I want to see if I can nudge it over 3 grand.

Looking at the pics closer is that lead sticking to the jacket even though it's curled over at the edges?

I have got to get some of those bullets.

Very nice report,thanks!

Great pictures and info. Thanks.

Regarding how far these bullets would penetrate in an animal, I think we may be forgetting something. The bullets in these tests were traveling virtually ALL the way in water. On the other hand, a bullet traveling through an animal's chest is going to travel through empty space a good amount of the time. I suspect the penetration of these bullets in an animal would exceed what Grizz has demonstrated here.

At any rate, put me in the IMPRESSED column. Excellent report Grizz

[ 07-13-2003, 21:04: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

I have dug some 130 grain 270 cal interbonds out of a dirt bank and they were globs of copper and lead about half of their original weight.they impacted at about 3200 fps

Why settle for partitions when you could have mushrooms like that. Very nice Grizz..

Anyone notice they all seem to take on the look of a spirialed 3-leaf clover! Sure got my attention and interest. Now if they will only make them in a 180gr for 30 cal and 140gr or 150gr for .277. I think these are going to be real winners in the "Real World" of hunting.
Good job Grizz and Hornady!
MM

This test would be meaningful only if a number of other types of premium bullets had been fired through the same medium to provide a comparison! One of the reasons the Partition is so deadly is that the front end virtually explodes after it enters the body cavity, while the rear portion continues to penetrate. This is the reason why one hears complaints that "the Partition bullet didn't expand!! The exit hole was no bigger than the entrance hole!!!" Of course, the complainant doesn't know it didn't expand, because the bullet is gone!! But examination of the innards shows a hell of a lot of damage! Is this bullet better for game shooting than a Partition? Perhaps, but shooting into water jugs won't prove it!! It'll have to be proven on game.

[ 07-14-2003, 22:02: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

eldeguello, you are of course entirely correct! The only way to have a decent test would be if Nozler had a 165 accubond, I could load it to nearly the same velocity and test it in the same media. Or if Hornady comes out with a 200 in the interbond. neither has happened yet.

Also you could take the 165 scirocco, partition, or any other bullet and run the same test. I have the time, but I darn sure don't have the money.

What this test told me was; the bullet didn't fragment and it retained a lot of weight. It expanded well, quickly and will penetrate well.

I've tested a few other bullets the same way. The 30 cal 165 ballistic tip and 165 Hornady SST. Both the same day, time, weapon, velocity and test media. The BT's all fragmented and lost their jacket, the SST's held together better and didn't loose their jacket.

The story I heard told about Joyce Hornady using wood pulp to test his early bullets in Grand Island Nebraska. It was a paper town, a lot of paper was/is produced there abouts. I would think that would be a good media to test bullets in.

Of course ballistic gelatin is the industry standard. But it is expensive, hard to handle, perishible and other wise not good for a home experimenter to use.

grizz... I am glad you took the time to show us your results. I think ill head over to midway and see what they have got in .277. I was going to try the noslers this year but... I want to test a second choice.

Grizz,
Thanks for posting your results. The only thing that worries me about these bullets is that it looks like they "Pancaked" a bit to much. I know that this was a concern with the folks who designed the accubond.
Regardless, the Scirocco people need to worry because the Interbond and Accubond have made their bullet obsolete.

O.F., it was a fortunate coincidence that you posted your results just when I did my test. I am interested in the accubond as well, but don't need a 200 grain bullet for whitetails. As for that, I don't need a bonded bullet for whitetails either!

I too noticed the accubond seems to have a smaller frontal area, or as you put it less of a pancake shape. This may aid in penetration over what the interbond will do. It'll take several years of hunting with each bullet to get any kind of results. Then there will still be no conclusion because of different angles, hits in less than perfect broadside shots and size of animals.

I just love to experiment, and may someday get to go after elk,(if my ship comes in, I'll probably be at the airport)!

One thing nobody has brought up: If you hunt for the purpose of putting meat on the table, bullets like these that expand greatly certainly anchor the animal, but also tear up quite a bit of meat. If you shoot them, you'd better not aim for the shoulder. Partitions on Muleys and blacktail have always seemed to do less damage if you clip a shoulder blade than balistic tips and the like. That being said, if you're trophy hunting, these bullets will ensure a short tracking job if you put the bullet in the boiler room.

Guys,
from what I've had experience with, the regular hornady and BT BLOW UP in a like test. I am frankly happy to see 80% recovered (the factories also do water tests)

a mushroomed bullet does FAR LESS meat damage than a "exploding" bullets, that come apart in the first inch.

20+ inches of penetration, from a hi vel bullet, and it stayed together... hell, i might give the red H another try

jeffe

where are you guys buying the interbond and accubond bullets at, i just glanced at midway the other day, maybe i missed something but i didn't see either of these type bullets available in .277

Meat damage be damned, I want a quick kill and to me that means a serious wound channel (preferably through the lungs) backed up with some good penetration, the "X" advocates can keep their narrow wound channels.

Old fart,

Comparing your two test results it appears to me that the Nosler version may be a bit tougher. A little less pancake. ?? Im thinking the interbonds may be a good fit for standard cases whereas the accubonds seem more well suited for magnum velocities.

[ 07-15-2003, 08:38: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ]

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/143254
This is a link to Midway's page with the .277 interbonds.

Guys, take a look at the sectioned interbond on the Hornady website. Click on the highlighted "interbond" on the opening dialog by Steve Hornady.

http://www.hornady.com/

In my test it can be seen that the expansion stopped right where the jacket becomes thicker. The nose has to be skived in order to aid mushrooming, it looks like they do a 3 point skiving or weakening of the nose to produce the 3 petal apperance of my bullets.

Nosler did about the same thing with the accubond.

http://www.nosler.com/accubond.html

Their jacket tapers abrubtly at about the same point. On old farts bullet it appears that there are five or six petals. O.F. what was the range that your's were tested at?

Brent's were at 15 feet? That might explain why they lost so much weight.

I'm thinking of repeating the test when I settle on a load that pushes the 165 to over 3,000 or 3,100. I will do 2 different tests the first as exactly like this one and the second with some dry phone books/catalogs in front of the water jugs.

I need to look at case head expansion to see if I'm at max like the Hornady data says I am. My old load with the SST was with AA XMR4350 that I got up to 3125. I haven't tried that powder with these yet. I'm wondering if these bullets being harder might limit the velocity because of pressure concerns.?!

[ 07-15-2003, 22:01: Message edited by: grizz ]

Well, since only Nosler makes a .338 caliber bonded bullet, I may have to try those first. The Hornady does look appealing for my .308 Encore though. And since it really likes SSTs, maybe these will be the ticket.

I'd sure like to hear/see how these bullets do on game, particularly the .338 Accubonds. Do you think they have what it takes to perform in heavy African animals?

Another question for those potentially in the know - any idea when either of these manufacturers will come with .257 or .264 caliber bullets? I would just love to get my hands on some 100-110 grain .257 caliber bonded bullets for my wife's .257 Roberts.

[ 07-15-2003, 23:49: Message edited by: DesertRam ]

Grizz or anyone else, Which bullet do you think would penetrate further when shot into the boiler room of an elk, a 165gr. Part. or the 165IB? And which would create a bigger wound channel? What counts more, wound channel or penetration? Jay

Jay;

I'll take penetration. Those IB look a little too soft for use on Elk.

Terry, So you wouldn't use them on elk? I think that's what Hornady intended people would use them for. Not sure. Jay

Jay, since I've never hunted elk, you can take my theories for what you paid for them!

It really depends on whether you absoulutely HAVE to have an exit wound. This gets back to the old argument about energy tranfer inside an animal. From what I've read, Elk can take a lot of energy and still run off a good distance. That's when you need a pass through to help in tracking.

I'm certainly not going elk hunting this year. By next year I'm sure that Hornady will have a 180 out in 30 cal IB. That's what I would rather use, the 180IB would certainly pass through an elk.

With greater expansion you are going to get less penetration if other factors like vel. & retained wieght are the same. I've tested various 7mm bullets in wet phone books & the NP pentrates farther w/ good exp. than any of the others I tried including the Accubonds. For elk, I would stick w/ the NP, Swift, CT or sim. tougher bullet.

Love to see them in 180 gr

THe only thing you need an exit hole for is tracking, but If your bullet messes up the inside of an elk good enough, and the bullet ends up underneath the far side of the hide, all of the energy that bullet made is used up inside of the animal and the elk shouldn't go to far, I hope and pray, I'd think since the IB retains at least 23% more weight then the NP and with the petals sticking out like they do, it would do more damage inside the animal and still penetrate enough to get the job done. Jay

grizz,

You tried stopping any of the Speer "Deep Shoks"? My 270 will be eating either Hornady Interbonds or Deep Shoks for deer this season.

[ 07-18-2003, 06:02: Message edited by: wpm ]

Second batch of tests were run today. I attemped to simulate 300 and 400 yd impact velocities. I shot one at 15 yds to see if I could get the interbond to blow up,,-NOPE. But it did shed more weight than after hitting at 100 yds with a MV of 3207(bullet # 2 in pic)! I also ran some load workups, while testing.

Last time I did the same with 4831SC. The top load,(69.0)only went 2975 but started to show a tendacy to tighten. Pressure ring mearsurements showed it was very mild. SO today I opened the throttle a little went to 70.0(3029 av), 70.5(3059) and 71.0(3078). The 71.0 load the first 2 were nearly touching! I debated whether to shoot the 3rd one into the group, or at the jugs waiting to be busted. The jugs won! That would be bullet # 3 in the pic.

The experiment with 3-400 yd impact went badly. I shot a 3 shot group with the 400 yd simulated velocities, then shot the last one at the jugs. Couldn't find the bullet, it looked like it skiped out the front of the jug, but missed the box of rags! The next test was for the 300 yd.s, this time I shot 2 at a target and the third at the jugs. Again the bullet was lost in the grass! I still had one left, that one was in the third jug! Thats bullet #1 .

The second load workup was with AA XMR4350.
66.0 3111 av 31.0 ES 3 rounds
67.0 3157 av 16.7 ES "
68.0 3207 av 8.6 ES For two rounds.
Needless to say I was very happy to see those kind of velocities. The target however was not so good, vertical stringing, groups 1.5 to 2 inchs.


Bullet 1 wt 148.2 exp .825 is supposed to be hitting at 2602 fps with a MV of 2710. I used 57.8 gr of WW760, it went out at2753, so a little fast. BUT it was the heaviest of any recovered so far.
Bullet #2 wt 130.5 exp .695 It hit at 15 yds from the muzzle. It lost the most weight af any so far, but it hardly "blew up". Jacket is peeled back further than any other so far as well.
#3 wt. 134.8 exp .695, Launched at 3207, is the fastest velocity so far. Jacket peeled back nearly as far as the 15 yd.
#4 wt 134.9 exp .715 This one was launched at 3078, nearly identical to #3.






Observations. The board in pic 3 is now almost totally destroyed. It got worse as the day grew longer. I'm going to design something to hold the jugs in-line. It'll have to be quite stout, there's a lot of force there! That's why the bullets kept getting lost, the jugs move when they're hit. # 3 skipped out of the side of jug 3 and went into the rag box. The first flannel shirt caught it just fine. I stopped using 4 jugs after the second bullet was lost.

I will repeat the 400 yd test some day soon

That looks like a really good bullet.

Reduced load testing makes less bullet rpm's and thus is not the same as when fired at full velocity.

Grizz,

Thanks for posting your results. I looks like you were having a blast doing it!

Based on what I saw here, I will be working up some loads to go along side my partitions.

Savage99, I wonder though, doesn't a bullet's rotation slow down as well as velocity? If not, then it could have something to do with why the expansion was less on the simulated 300 yd bullet. I don't have a 3-400 yd range right now. My gunclub is limited to 200 yds.

Kynadog, you are right on, I love to experiment! But part of being a handloader is the experimental aspect of it, right? It gives me something to look forward to.

Grizz,

Bill Davis posted the info on this in the American Rifleman a way back. He pointed out that the RPM's don't slow much at all over the second or less that a bullet flies. He calculated that there is not that much energy in a bullets rotation either.

However when Winchester tested the Failsafes they shot them at a lower velocity to simulate long range and it messed up the test.

I was going to do a test with MK's at short range with reduced loads and dropped the idea as I don't even read those hunting with MK threads.

That Hornady Interbond looks like a very nice addition to our premium bullet lineup however they are not free at about $.30 ea.

[ 08-06-2003, 09:30: Message edited by: Savage 99 ]

Guys,
Go to www.24hourcampfire.com and poke around on there.
JJhack, a PH, posted some VERY impressive reults from the Interbond on African Game.

Johnny, I'd love to read those posts, could you be more specific? I just spent 1/2 hour going over the campfire BBS, couldn't find any posts on the interbond. Highlite, copy and paste the thread URL here to direct me if you could?

Like this-http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=176006&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1