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| One of Us |
Hello all, Just have a quick question. What do you guys think about the 8mm Mauser? I currently use a 7mm Mag for hunting but recently bought a K98 and 900 rounds of non corr. ammo for it. This got me thinking about having a rifle made in 8X57, seems the .323 would leave a good blood trail and pack a punch with the 200 grain nosler partition. Obviously I would have to reload for it to be any good. I know there are easier ways but I like to be different. There seems to be a few more options today for the 8mm. | ||
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Rem makes a 8 x 57 I believe it is the m700, great gun and cartrige. American ammo makers load it lightly, I guess there are some 8 X 57's that are considered weak. Ballisticly it is about the same as a 30-06, bimo it is supperior, especially with heavier bullets. Mike "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a slave", Ceasar | |||
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I've been hunting a lot of deer and wild boar in Eastern Europe w/ one of my 8 x 57s and was never dissatisfied (using RWS ammo exclusively). Over there it's THE classic caliber for hunting, next to 9.3 x 74 R. For safety reasons (possible interchangeability I/IS), 8mm Mauser ammo in the US is quite anaemic, although I found Federal not bad. If you really want to have fun with your 98k, get a scout scope, dump the milsurp and load your own ammo. Weightwise you should opt for the opposite end of the scale and either go for 200 or 150 grs respectively. The 98k is a widely underrated, robust and, quite often, accurate hunting rifle. And a cheap one. The attached pic of a 5 shot group (incl. 2 foulers) tells it all.  | |||
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The Mausers that were made during the later war years were hastily manufactured and tended not to have the quality controls in place as mausers were prior to the war, (WWII..) therefore they have been found to be weaker. This is the reason American ammo is loaded very light as compared to the European conterparts. Mausers that were made prior to the war were very well made, very strong and are on par with any Mod 700, Mod 70 or Mod 77 action. I would have a competent gunsmith take a look at your K98 just to be sure before you start loading for it. Given you have a strong action your 8mm can perform as well as any 308 or 30/06 with safe max loads and be just as versitle. There are some good 150gr spitzers.. Speer has a 170gr semi-spitzer.. Sierra has a 175gr Spitzer that was my favorite.. Remington has a 185gr bullet you can pick up at Midway.. Nosler has a 180gr Ballistic-tip Hornady has a 195gr spitzer and Nosler has a 200gr Partition and Accubond So there is lots to choose from so have fun with it.  Why do they call it common sense, when it is so uncommon?? | |||
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Handloader magazine recently ran an article about handloading the 8x57. They found that the 195-200 gr bullet loads were most accurate. They also mentioned Hornady 195 gr factory ammo was within a hair of the accuracy of their best handload. Hornady listed it in their 2005 catalog, but it is no longer on their website. Too bad, but at least I found 4 boxes of it! Sierra also has a 220 gr gameking and a 200 gr matchking. Andy Pray, Vote, Shoot, Reload. | |||
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Great case to reload you can stand toe to toe with the 06 using heavy bullets with slowburning powders. My load was IMR 4350 with the 200gr speer | |||
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The 8 X 57 is a fine military and sporting round and if one has a Mil-surp rifle it's a shooter indeed. However if one wants to make a custom rifle there's a lot of cartridges I'd consider better and the .30-06 or .338-06 are easily among them. The 8 MM mauser is a handloading only proposition and if one goes that route the .338-06 is a far superior round. If one isn't a handloader then the .30-06 is a superior round to the factory loaded 8 MMs The .280 Remington is also a superior round IMO and when one says he wants to build a rifle he isn't limited to one caliber. Nothing wrong with the 8 MM Mauser but certainly not what I'd chamber for in a custom rifle. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I'm very fond of the .338-06 too but none of the game killed with it would be any less dead had I used an 8x57. If the 8x57 is the equivilent to the .30-06 then it must rank identically in standing when compared to the .338-06. It must certainly be the most under rated cartridge of the century, at least in America. | |||
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There are no flies on the 8x57JS. The last deer I killed with an 8x57 and that was a one shot kill. You'll do find with the 8x57 as long as you have good shooting practices and can hit what you aim at. Nevermind all this "what you ought to hunt with" talk, just use your 8x57 and don't look back. You won't be disappointed. Jason "Chance favors the prepared mind." | |||
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I've shot hogs and deer with my 8x57, all were bang flop, something the .308 win has NEVER done for me! | |||
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Midway is selling 900 rounds of surplus Yugoslavian 8mm Mauser ammunition (196 gr FMJ) for $75. That's about 8.3¢ per bullet. I don't like the idea of shooting corrosive ammo. But are the bullets of good enough quality to pull them for reloading? Other modern similarly-weighted bullets go for about 22¢ each. | |||
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Try Sportsmans Guide, I payed $56 for my non corrosive 8mm Mauser. | |||
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Hunt4Life, Please give details (manufacturer, weight). A link would be better. I'm looking for 195 to 200 gr bullets for reloading. I do not shoot factory ammo. | |||
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The bullet weight is lighter than you need but they have other options and are always adding new surplus ammo as it becomes available.8mm Surplus | |||
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Look up www.hornady.com for details They make a 195 gr Pointed sosft point. Remember, forgivness is easier to get than permission. | |||
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My hunting bullet in the 8 x 57 is the Speer 170 grain SMP... period... It penetrates substantially at very low velocity.. like down to 1200 fps.. and does extensive damage when pushed to the extreme at about 3100 fps...( yeah, very very hot load).... if you compare a 8mm Mauser case and a 223, they look like Big Brother Little Brother pictures... powders that work well in the 223, bring out the best in the 8 x 57....instead of the usual mid burn rate powders.... cheers seafire  | |||
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I find the 8x57 works well with 4064, N-202, and H-380 | |||
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I don't think it ever was on their website. I recall calling Hornady customer service about that very thing around the middle of last year to make sure it was available. Of course they told me it was and also told me the 195 gr pill was specifically made for the 8x57. | |||
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Try www.ammunitionstore.com for all your ammo needs. They have it all. Mike "An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a slave", Ceasar | |||
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Lets try and get it right about why North American loads are loaded to very low pressure. It has nothing to do with the strength of Mauser 98 actions. When the Germans first adopted the 8x57 in 1888 it had a .318" bore and was called the 8x57J. They later adopted a lighter bullet at a much higher velocity and a different bore size of .323" . This new bore was called the JS or sometimes just the "S" bore.North American manufactures load the .323" diam bullet to low pressures in case someone has an old J bore (.318") rifle and doesn't understand what the S is all about | |||
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I just checked their 2006 catalog, and it is still in there! BTW, is downloading by a few hundred fps enough to make a bullet go safely through a bbl that is .005 too small? My dad always told me it was because some of the late WWII guns had poor headspacing. His (mine now) was a bring-back sniper model (long since sporterized), and it shoots the Hornady fodder very well. Thanks, Andy Pray, Vote, Shoot, Reload. | |||
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Big Jake I am not suggesting anyone should start shooting oversized bullets in any rifle. However if you read P.O. Ackley's handbooks there is an article in his book where he opened up the throat on a 30-06 to accept a 35 calibre bullet.A 35 cal bullet was fired in a .308" bore with no signs of excess pressure. I don't have my Ackley books with me at this time so I can't tell what page that is found on but perhaps someone else out there has their Ackley books handy and can supply a page #. So if you can push a bullet down a barrel that is .050" too small I suspect .005" too small is no problem. I also recall an article about a .333 OKH rifle which used .333 diam bullets. When Win brought out the .338 Win the supply of good .338 diam bullets was much better than the older .333 diam.The author decided to try the new .338 diam bullets without swaging them down. He dropped his powder charge a few grains and then proceeded to work back up to the same load he had been loading for the .333 diam bullets. | |||
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So, if 0.005" diameter really doesn't make a significant difference in pressure, why would the main American ammo manufacturers download their ammo (Hornady not included)? Andy Pray, Vote, Shoot, Reload. | |||
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I am starting to fool around with 180 grn Barnes TSXs which I think just might be the perfect bullet. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Becasue their lawyers told them to. | |||
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tell us more. what powders and loads have you tried. what have the results been. | |||
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54.5 grns of h4350 2535 fps Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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