I am leaning towards FL resize with the bullet set the recommended 30-50 thousandths back from the lands. This should ensure there are no feeding problems - correct?

John

Yup! You dont care for caselife when hunting, you care for feeding! FL size and a tight crimp, thats the ticket.

Agreed--FL for hunting--not sure where you're hunting or conditions but dirt, rain, ice etc etc can all give troubles to cases that are tightly fit to the chamber.

quote:

Originally posted by Ropes:
I am leaning towards FL resize with the bullet set the recommended 30-50 thousandths back from the lands. This should ensure there are no feeding problems - correct?

John

Just out of curiosity, what bullet are you using (some bullets like to be closer to the lands) and how are you setting your die in order to full length resize?

30-06 with 180 grain Nosler Partitions, cases will be sized to factory specs with the bullets set out with a stoney point AOL gauge. I prefer the canlure (sp) to be fully inside the case mouth.

John

From what I've read, mostly monolithic bullets like Barnes X and TSX bullets need to be set back that far. I briefly loaded the Nosler and found that the bullets varied a lot so each one had to be set out and slowly seated deeper while taking measurements with the comparator in order to get consistent lands-to-ogive measurements. Any specific reason why you like to have the cannelure inside the neck?

I thought the cannelure was there to ensure the case neck held the bullet in place under recoil?

Im New to reloading so please inform me if I am wrong?

John

Unless you keep some brass just for hunting purposes, I would set your full length resizer to size each case just enough that the bolt closes with VERY SLIGHT resistence. Your case life will be longer and concentricity much better. I never crimp anything smaller than .375 H&H except for 30-30 or 45-70 in lever guns or pistol rounds. Except for the big stuff or bullets for lever guns most of the bullets I shoot don't even have a crimp groove in them anyway. Try it both ways and see which you or your rifle likes best.

quote:

Originally posted by Ropes:
I thought the cannelure was there to ensure the case neck held the bullet in place under recoil?

In a way you are right. The cannelure is there in order to give a place to crimp the case mouth into. If you didn't have a cannelure for the crimp to go down into, the crimp would cause a bulge which would make your cartridge hard to chamber. Very few of us crimp hand loaded cartridges and rely on neck tension to keep the bullet in place. This allows for more consistent bullet release (unless you crimp them just right, which is another subject).

JBD is entirely correct. He describes partial full length resizing when he said to set your die to size just enough to close the bolt on the case with slight resistance. If you want a detailed description let us know. Crimping is usually only done for instances as described by JBD and when you compress the powder and the pressure from the compressed powder might push the bullet out.

I just wondered if you had run across instances when the cannelure caused some kind of problem like collecting dirt or something.

I guess I'll be the contrarian. I don't hunt any dangerous game, so I neck size only using Lee collet neck dies. If I need to bump the shoulder back at some point because the case has expanded to the where it won't chamber I use my Redding body die for that.

I would like the procedure for sizing so the bolt closes with a little resistance actually

Thanks, john

On page 7 of this section there is an extensive discussion on the process but here goes.

The first thing you have to understand is that the die first contacts the neck and starts sizing it and then contacts the case at the pressure ring (bulge ring about 1/4" above case head) and then starts to resize the case which PUSHES THE SHOULDER FORWARD. You can verify this with a fired case and your rifle by setting your rifle in a vise and chambering the case as you go through sizing.

1. Install the die and shell holder and run the ram up and screw the die down onto the shell holder. Then back the die out 2 full turns.
2. Chamber a fired round and notice how hard it is to close the bolt on the case. It should be easy with a once fired and harder the more times you have reloaded it. If you have a headspace gauge take a measurement.
3. Resize the case in the die and you will notice how far down the neck has been sized. The die should not have contacted the case body yet. Chamber the case and you should notice no change in how hard it is to close the bolt.
4. Screw the die in a 1/4 turn and repeat the process. At some point (it varies so there is no easy way to do this with your dies and your rifle the first time) the die will contact the case body and start sizing it and PUSH THE SHOULDER FORWARD. You can verify this with the headspace gauge or by chambering the case and noticing that the bolt is harder to close. Actually, most of the time it happens at about 1 full turn out for most of my dies.
5. If you now backed the die back out, you would be at the point where you could neck size a maximum amount.
6. But continuing to screw the die in will size more and more of the case body. The die still HAS NOT CONTACTED THE SHOULDER.
7. The point where the die first contacts the shoulder and pushes it back the first little bit is called Partial Full Length Resizing. The bolt becomes easier to close and you are now doing away with the "crush fit" of neck sizing. This usually happens after you have gone past the point where the die is screwed down on the shell holder about 1/8 of a turn. This happens very quickly, so move the die a little at a time. You want to move the shoulder back only .001" and have a easier but tight fit of the case in the chamber.

Full length sizing is pushing the shoulder back to specs and that happens very quick after partial full length resizing.

Short version
1. Run the shell holder up to the top and screw the die down.
2. Screw the die down a 1/16 of a turn further down and size a case.
3. Chamber the case and continue screwing in the die in very small increments until you notice the case chambers easier. You're there. Lock the die down and resize your cases.

Did I get it right Hot Core?

On my 270 the fired cases chamber fine , I have always full length sized all cases. But on this last batch i adjusted the die as stated above and every thing workes good. So I guess that is how I will do them in the future. On my 300win. I full length size and will continue doing them that way, I do not want any problems elk hunting. I also ahve the bullet off the lands by about .010,using Barnes tsx 180gr.It gives good accuracy...P

quote:

Originally posted by Paul J Langevin:
I also ahve the bullet off the lands by about .010,using Barnes tsx 180gr.It gives good accuracy...P

Paul

Just loaded up some TSX in 200 and 180 grain for the 300 WIN. I'm still setting them off .05 like Barnes says. On my 270 I have to set them .065 off the lands because of magazine length. It shoots great. Will post some pictures tomorrow (they're in my other computer at work). I looove the TSX's. Paperpunch like a MatchKing but have 100% weight retention.

Woods has described the process very well. It works for belted magnum cases also. Forget the belt and resize them to headspace off the shoulder. Definitely helps case life and usually accuracy.

Thanks for the help. I will give it a try..

NOW I'm gonna muddy the water a little. There was just recently a quite lengthy discussion on headspacing and accuracy. The guys pretty much agreed that the best accuracy they had gotten was NOT WITH THE bolt closing with "a little pressure" but with about .003" headspace. My findings go along with theirs. If you have tension you could very well be shifting or slightly twisting the case and throwing the bullet slightly off line with the bore. (Or so the theory was). Anyhow, once again being that this is hunting ammo I certainly wouldn't want to set it up so that it is so tight in the chamber that the bolt is already giving resistance to closing------what happens when you get dirt, water, ice etc in there? ALSO, if you do decide to do it that way BE SURE to check all your ammo in your gun before you leave for the field. All it will take is one case neck with a little less lube and you will pull up a shouldler ever so slightly and it might not chamber....been there done that....that's why I believe setting a die up for about .003" headspace is the smart thing to do for hunting ammo---I think a little safety margin is what I want.

I think I'm headed that way myself. I gave up on neck sizing and PFLR is so tricky that .001" one way or the other leads to inconsistent pressure when the bolt is closed.

They say that it works the brass more, but I've never had a neck or shoulder split before the primers start falling out of an overused case anyway.

Still thinking about it.

I resize just as Woods described, however I disassemble the bolt first to remove the effect of the firing pin spring tension so I can better "feel" when the bolt closes with just Very light drag on the bolt when it closes. Of course this means that the die can only be used with just this one rifle while it is so adjusted.

All you need to do is "bump" the shoulder back .002 to insure an easy fit. I would definitly NOT reccomend crimping the bullet. If you are an inexperieced reloder this can cause a variety of proplems unless the exact pressure is created for every crimp. If you are using a mag fed action there is no need for this. This crimping also affects accuracy if not consistient as well...

If you are only worried about "minute of pie plate" then I guess you are set.. but your intended target seserves the best accuracy you can provide.

I have never been in a situation where there has been so much mud/dirt/harsh conditions that any one of the hunters or myself needed a military type crimp on thier ammo...

If you are using the .30 cal. the bullets tend to like it just kissing then lands or about .020 off...

Ric Horst,welcome.Kraky gave an acurate reply;.003" bump the shoulder back.I use that on PFLR ,( not on dangerous game),checking the ammo outside before hunting,I dont like using a puller on those rounds that doesnt chamber...

try loading it so the bolt closes just like it does with factory ammo; moving the shoulder back a little at a time when sizing. Easy bolt handle close and fires all the time. It ain't no harder than that. roger

actually just take a fired case and measuer the shoulder with your calipers... place it in your FL die tighten the die down until there is resistence and then measure the shoulder again.. when you have bumped it .002 tighen the set screw and you're good to go..

quote:

Originally posted by Ric Horst:
actually just take a fired case and measuer the shoulder with your calipers... place it in your FL die tighten the die down until there is resistence and then measure the shoulder again.. when you have bumped it .002 tighen the set screw and you're good to go..

Having a headspace gauge to put on your calipers might make that a little easier.

Sure it would ... I agree... but not necessary...

Hello,
Let me suggest you purchase a Mose' Gauge or the RCBS micrometer case tool, whichever, or you can go with the Stoney Point system which will require you to use your calipers for accurate chamber gauging. Either way, you have a relatively accurate number to work with and can set your resizing die accordingly.
Somewhere it was mentioned about setting the bullet back some .030 or .050 from the lands and grooves in order to make sure the round chambered through the magazine?? Chech the max cartridge OAL in your manual, measure the throat of the chamber and load accordingly. The stated max length should not exceed the magazine dimension length wise. I would not think that with such a jump as described, that accuracy would be all that great?? I would not suggest you crimping the bullet in the case mouth for that could also "crimp" accuracy as well. Just suggestions you might want to try.
Favor Center!
dsiteman