I bought some new Winchester brass for my 300 mag when I first got it (haven't even had a chance to fire all of the brass yet), and also picked up some once-fired from a gun shop (price was so good that I didn't even think to check the brand). I now have about 30 or so Remington hulls and 50 winchester hulls. Are the specs (case capacity, wall thickness, etc.) on these two brands close enough that I can mix them together on a load and likely see no difference, or should I pick one and stick with it, or just make sure that each load uses the same brass (one load w/ Win, one with Rem). I'm shooting a Ruger M77 MKII All-Weather (i.e. not a match grade BR rifle).

Im pretty new at reloading but.........the more experienced guys always say,when you change any componets.....alway start a lower charge and then work up.

If you aren't loading near maximum loads, it should be safe to mix Remington and Winchester brass but since there will be some differences, accuracy potential with mixed brass probably won't be as good as if you were only using one brand.

Sell one brand and stay with one brand. Mixing brass isn't the worst thing in the world but it's just one of the things that can cause a bad day.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Sell one brand and stay with one brand. Mixing brass isn't the worst thing in the world but it's just one of the things that can cause a bad day.

I agree.

keep all your brass , weigh them on a digital scale, you will see a difference, seperate them by weight of grains, ifin your new to reloading read all the manuals you can , case weights will very even from the same box or bag of brass new or used. regards jjmp

For hunting, plinking, and practice, all assuming under safe max loads, you are fine.

For best accuracy, keep them the same. You can do all the case sorting, neck annealing and reaming, and such that you want and get them pretty much the same, but why bother?

Use one for practice, the uniform lot for target and hunting work.

I agree with what jjmp just said. Lyman had printed in some of their older manuals that a military case that was appox 20 grs heavier than a commercial case had approx 2grs LESS capacity. That averages out to about 1 gr less capacity for every 10 grains more a case weighs. I will quite often use the cases with the most capacity for heavy bullets in that calibre when slow powders are used. The heavier cases with less capacity get used on the lighter bullets with a faster powder. Its an easy way to keep different bullet weights identifiable.

All Cartridges I load for I pretty much stay with one brand of brass. However I have a 30/06 that I have Rem and WW brass for. If I have it sighted in for my favorite load of 56 grains of IMR-4350 and 180 grain Sierra SBT's in WW cases, if I switch only the brass to Rem and everything else stays the same my point of impact changes 1.5" higher and 2" left at 100 yards.
I shoot one or the other and never mix for that reason.

Example:

Last month I had ((identical)) loads for a 22-250 in Winchester cases and in Remington cases(intentional).

The Remingtons showed no sign of high pressure and the Winchesters had soot rings around every primer.

There was a difference. Whatever the cause it was related to some case difference. Could have been nothing more than Winchesters had looser primer pockets.

The load was 39gr. Accurate 4350 behind a 55gr. Varmint Nite Mare bullet. That load had never shown pressure signs before. roger

The short answer from experiance shooting this brass in this caliber-no. In my case the Remington was slightly softer than Winchester and less volume -the velocity ran about +50 fps difference for the Remington with the same load.Pick a good lot of brass and fire it all the same number of times -the necks will get harder in firing and resizing and this will show up on the target.After the first firing check to make sure you only push the shoulder back .002 maximum in full length sizing of your new brass.A good tool is a RCBS gauge that you drop a case in to measure the position of the shoulder called The RCBS case mic- http://www.realguns.com/archives/035.htm You can use a pistol case or short 1" piece of tubing to make a fast gauge -just make sure that the od is about 1/2 the case shoulder .Drop it over the neck and measure with verniers from the base or your case to the top of your new gauge.A very reasonable one can be purchased for $20 these days.
Glenn

All the above poster are right....and yet they may be wrong. It depends on your gun. It might surprise you and safe loads with either brass could clock virtually the same speed and the same point of impact. If I was to bet I would say if you load the Rem's 1 grain lighter you will have a match to the win brass.
Nothing is for sure till you try it.
I once had a 270 win in a browning bar with boss that would shoot 130, 140, 150 grainers all to the same point of impact. I could mix them up and show you a 1.25" group at 100 yds.
Things might have been real different at 300 yds but never checked it that far out.
The odds are slightly against you being able to shoot exactly the same groups with either brass but you won't know till you try it.

quote:

Originally posted by jjmp:
keep all your brass , weigh them on a digital scale, you will see a difference, seperate them by weight of grains, ifin your new to reloading read all the manuals you can , case weights will very even from the same box or bag of brass new or used. regards jjmp

Wellllllllll -- if you're loading for extreme accuracy off the bench or working up a wildcat load w/ extreme working pressures.

Then you sort ONE BRAND of brass by weight, by case volume, and even by the number of times it's been fired and reloaded.

But if you're just plinking and horsing around -- which for me is about 90% of my shooting, "range pickups" "mixed brass" are fine so long as they're all in good shape.

Mixed brass needs to be checked/trimmed for case length, particularly "range pickups."

Even max loads listed in FACTORY load data manuals are reasonably moderate. (Load data online from other loaders/shooters is suspect! I don't trust it!)

My rule of thumb for FACTORY data is to start mid-point between the min. and the max. load.

But for ACCURACY and consistant ballistics, you are greatly benefitted by using one brand of brass -- from one factory production lot (should be marked on the package), and keeping that brass sorted out according to how many times it's been reloaded.

I find the easiest way to do this is to keep the brass sorted in the "Stearite" plastic "shoe storage" boxes/containers sold at office outlets or Wal-Mart. They're see-through, and about a buck a box. And they stack.

Ohhhh yeah, and I scrounge at the range for the plastic "shell holder" blocks for pistol ammo. They hold 50 rds and fit inside the Stearite shoe box. 45 ACP blocks are nice. I'll pick up 38/357 blocks for small rifle and pistol loads. 45 ACP works for most rifle cases.

Keep the load data for that "lot" / box on a lined sheet of tablet paper. Start at the top with a DATE, and whatever process has been run -- e.g.:

10-14-06 100 pcs, Win. 30-06, second reload.

Decapped, sized.

10-15-06 trimmed to 2.xxx"

10-16-06

Primed, Fed. Large Rifle
Speer 150 gr. FP
48 gr. Hodgdon XXXX
OAL 2.xxx"

Then I have the paper, and back side to make notes at the range:

11-12-06 temp 55F 5 shot @ 100 yds, 1.xx" "flyers"

Etc.

If I run a chrono on ammo, I keep the tape printout, and note on the paper.

I run a spiral notebook for each caliber and will tape a "load notes" into the spiral along with group targets.

Data is what you're trying to collect when you load. Data and a consistant, uniform process.

Thanks for all the pointers. I'm going to have to try to ignore the advice about sorting cases by weight, etc. and throwing out some cases for now. I'm anal about accuracy and making things as good as I possibly can to remove ALL equipment variation that I can. Unfortunately, I can't afford to do so, nor can I afford all the little gizmos and gadgets I want for reloading. I also don't feel as though I've got the experience level yet where sorting all of my brass by weight, etc. is really going to show me much difference in my shooting. Some day I will, but at this point, I'll just have to deal with what I can afford (which means just use the brass I get and keep it separated by brand and number of times fired and keep going until it splits or is otherwise unsafe).

I think what I may look into is the possibility of using my Winchester brass for my 165 grain loads and 220 grain (when I start on the 220), and keep the Remington brass for my 125 grain loads.


Another question, off topic. My 125 grain loads seem to be too low of pressure evidenced by obvious gas leakage from the front of the case (streak down the side of the case after firing w/ no high pressure signs). My uncle and I decided it was likely due to the brass not expanding in the chamber enough, and that using a factory crimp would probably hold the bullet in the case just a tad longer, allowing the case to expand more and reduce the leakage (and thus end up more consistent). Would this actually help, or am I wasting my time?

A crimp could help....what is the charge?? I will run it past quickload.

I'm getting it with all of my light bullet loads, which consist of 60, 62, and 64 grains of IMR 3031 behind a 125 grain Sierra spitzer pro-hunter (#2120). I'm also getting it with my load of 66 grains of IMR 4350 behind a 165 grain Sierra SBT (#2145) (but not with the hotter loads in that bullet weight).

From what my QL is telling me I believe it. The 60 grain I3031 load under a 125 is only making about 43k pressure. the 64 grain load is making about 51k pressure (I would think this would seal up the case). The 66 grain of 4350 under a 165 is just doing about 45k pressure. I would recomend trying to run in the middle of load manual recomendations if possible.

I'm trying to go for the best consistency I can get, and unfortunately, I have found that at the near max loads on both of those bullet weights. The 64 grains of 3031 and 125 gr bullet shot the best, and I've had good luck with 72 and 73 grains of 4350 behind the 165 (close enough to each other that I plan to devote a day at the range to only those two loads). Oddly, the 66 grains of 4350 performed quite well...about as well as the hotter loads. I'm really interested in trying the crimp die (bought one today, along with some 220 grain RN Sierras to play with) to see what that particular load will do. I am also toying with the idea of testing neck sized versus FL sized when I get it narrowed down to a couple of specific loads, and may toy with loading the 125's in brass that's been neck sized and previously shot with one of my hotter, heavier loads if the factory crimp doesn't improve my situation. (I assume I can neck-size by just pulling the ram on my press past the first area of resistance and back down on Lee RGB dies)