I just bought a pre-64 M70 (1956) Featherweight in 30-06. Took it to the range Saturday and realized all of my 30-06 loads were loaded in brass fired through rifles I no longer have so I spent last night pulling bullets, collecting powder (4350) and popping out primers. All of the brass will be polished and fully resized so I'm starting from scratch. Here is what I have:

5+ lbs of 4350
250 pieces of brass
200 count of 180 gr. Nosler Partitions
100 count Hornady 180 gr round nose
100 count 200 gr Nosler Partitions
100 count Hornady 220's.
400 count primers

Other than the occasional trip to the range I only use the rifle for deer here in Michigan. I'm partial to 180 gr round nose ( my previous M70 would shoot 1" groups of over the counter Remington 180 gr Corelock all day long).

Given the above, where would you start to reload rounds? I'd like ot develop one load and keep it really simple.

Thanks,

JDG

Look in your book, pick the powder charge in the middle of the range. Use that.

if that's what you got then I guess 4350 and one of the 180gr. bullets you got [shrug] maybe use some of the primers you have too.

I would have just used what you had loaded if it fit.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
I would have just used what you had loaded if it fit.

None of them did. It’s a long story.

I never found the 220s to offer much over the 200s in 0-6, unless they are more accurate your rifle. hard to beat 180 partition if they work.

Make sure your brass fits before you do anything else. After you fl size it.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
if that's what you got then I guess 4350 and one of the 180gr. bullets you got [shrug] maybe use some of the primers you have too.

Ya think? I’d grab a box of 165’s if I could find them.

I think the question is where should I start to work up a load.

Where I said, above. Middle of your book loads.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Make sure your brass fits before you do anything else. After you fl size it.

^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wise words. I know from personal experience.

FWIW. I run every round I load through the chamber of the rifle I intend to use it in.

If I have 2 or more rifles of the same caliber, I identify which rifle has the smaller chamber and size all my rounds for it, but I'm not a competition shooter. Just ground squirrels and occasionally deer. (It's an age thingy.)

There is an old American Hunter article from Ed Matunas (sp?) that said something to the effect that the following load shot well in nearly every 30.06 capable of decent accuracy. He acknowledged that you might find better for a particular rifle, but this load shot well in almost all rifles.

57.0 Grains of IMR 4350 and 180 grain Nosler partition with a (Federal) large rifle primer.

I have loaded for 8 different model 70's in 30.06 and found this load to perform (1 to 1 1/2") in every rifle. Perhaps not the ultimate in accuracy, but versatility and better than necessary accuracy for a hunting rifle.

Bill

I used 58 grs in my Win 70 fwt and I also liked the round nose bullets for deer, they have a lot of lead exposed and kill quickly, Hornadys, WW power points and corelokts, but I leaned towards the 150 gr. RN 30-30 bullets on deer, they are softer and knock the snot out of light bodied Texas Hillcountry and West texas Coues deer at about 2700 to 2800 fps. but for big northern whitetaill the 180 Hornady might be the best bet from a penetration point of view..

57 on the 180's and 53 on the 200 and 220.
That's pretty simple. Keep COL at book recommendations.

My old M70 loved 180’s. Even off the shelf ammo. That’s why I have in terms of components.

When I bought my first rifle, a 30-06 one thing that sounded good was the wide range of bullet weights available. For me, in reality that is a moot point. I tried the 110 grain and they don't make it a varmint gun. The kick and blast was about the same as 150 grainers. Certainly not something I'd want to go shoot 100 jacks a night with. To me it would be a nightmare to have several different bullet weights and have to go sight in every time and try and remember which one it was sighted in for. So I selected 150 grain bullets and have taken moose, caribou. pronghorn and deer with no complaints. I selected 4064 powder as it pretty much gave maximum velocity with all the various bullet weights. (as mentioned another moot point) then for years I kept hearing 4350 was THE powder. I tried it and my gun likes 4064 better. For years I heard round nose bullets cut through brush better. I think it was Hornady did an extensive test and their conclusion was that spire points cut through brush better. I fully understand using round nose when you have a tubular magazine, but for me I can't see using them in a bolt action.

Cast bullets down around 1600 fps using Unique powder there is very little recoil and mild blast. Other than that, I use 150 grain spire points and 52.2 grains 4064. I'd suspect where you have 4350, there wouldn't be enough difference for hunting purposes between the 4350 and the 4064.

My -06 shoots the 200gr partitions at around an inch for five shots with 44.3 grains of varget and winchester lr primer. I haven't tried 4350 yet but maybe I should.

If you want to get rid of the 200gr partitions shoot me a pm.

carpetman:
You've gotta be a candy ass!

Hell I shot over 250 prairie dogs many a day
with my '06 and 110's. No idea the vel or load
now. Plumb hot though. That's all I had besides a .22 for many years. Believe I used 4895 for those too.

One thing that impressed me doing that was there wasn't anything left for the coyotes. Just a red
misted triangle from where they were when hit til it was used up.

Same load did one hell of a blow up job on coyotes too.

Might be your rifle is too light weight to cut recoil down. IF that's it, hang a brick on it.

Just yanking your chain a bit is all with what I did as a kid.

George

georgeld---Wow! That is very macho, 250 shots with a 30-06. I bet you even did this WITHOUT HEARING PROTECTION. What a guy.

Google the Satterlee ladder method

It is a fantastic start point

Hard to beat the 180 at 2700 fps, they work on anything..but I like the 150 for deer, and the 200 accubond for elk and big stuff..not much use for the 220s they are too slow and trajectory is about like a 30-30..

A 30-06 loaded 180 gr projectiles and 4350 seem like the “cast iron skillet” of loads: there really isn’t anything you can kill with it IF you do your part.

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
A 30-06 loaded 180 gr projectiles and 4350 seem like the “cast iron skillet” of loads: there really isn’t anything you can kill with it IF you do your part.

I agree. The beauty of the 06 is you can start from wherever you want and likely end up in a pretty good place. But for me, the 06 is a 180 Gr slug rifle. Other rifles in my battery do smaller better and others do larger better, but 180's are pretty much the bees knees.

165 and up 4350
150 and under 4064

I’d just try loading 3 rounds with the 180’s with 52gr of 4350, and then go up by .5 grains to 57, stopping sooner if the velocity gets much over 2700, or if the grouping turns to patterns.

Once you have one of the 180’s done, I’d try the other with a couple grains less and go up by .5 there.

You can certainly tune from there, but that will get you killing deer.

It will let you see if your rifle is sighted in well, and then load up the rest of the 180’s and use them on game. I’d say that either bullet is fine on deer, but the partition is better on the bigger animals.

The 200+ grain stuff would be good on big things in AK. It will kill deer as well, but probably is more than you want to shoot at them.

I likek the rn bullets on Texas hill country small whitetails as the expand fast and kill quickly at 100 yards from stand to feeder...

My shoot everything bullet is the 200 gr. Accubond for anything that walks, talks, swims or flys..Ives shot a Bison, Cape buffalo and a number of elk and pG with them, a cow Moose, and small whitetail and Coues deer with that bullet..It just works at 2700 FPS the same velocity that I shoot the 180 gr.

Finally made it back out to the range yesterday afternoon. Made up three loads of 4350 and 180 gr Partitions (51gr, 54.5gr, and 56.5). All three shot OK but the 56.5 loads seemed to group the best. (Photo below)

This was 100-yards, Leupold 4x with a heavy duplex (blocked out the bull), a horribly stiff trigger, a wobbly lead sled, warm barrel, after 20-rounds fired. I’m going to swap out the 4x with another with a standard duplex or fine crosshairs and I’ve tightened up the lead sled and I’ll have the trigger bright down to an accept safe pull.

I know I can do better and I am sure the rifle can do better but what is considered “excellent” for an old M70 hunting rifle?

Thanks,

Jay

You definetly need to Google the Satterlee ladder method

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
Finally made it back out to the range yesterday afternoon. Made up three loads of 4350 and 180 gr Partitions (51gr, 54.5gr, and 56.5). All three shot OK but the 56.5 loads seemed to group the best. (Photo below)

This was 100-yards, Leupold 4x with a heavy duplex (blocked out the bull), a horribly stiff trigger, a wobbly lead sled, warm barrel, after 20-rounds fired. I’m going to swap out the 4x with another with a standard duplex or fine crosshairs and I’ve tightened up the lead sled and I’ll have the trigger bright down to an accept safe pull.

I know I can do better and I am sure the rifle can do better but what is considered “excellent” for an old M70 hunting rifle?

Thanks,

Jay

For a pre-64, if its less than 1 MOA, its an excellent load. Most shot into 2 MOA- I recall reading (I think O'Connor) that 1.5" at 100 was good.

Barrels and tolerances just were not as good as now. Add modern bullets, and things get better yet.

Forgot to include the photo to my previous post. I think that I can probably tighten this group by 1" by cleaning up my form and the items I mentioned above. If I do that I'll probably be happy. Thoughts?

In terms of using the Satterley approach, I don't have a chrono and I don't plan to get one.

I started a quest for the One Load, I was loading for 4 30-06s. As the groups tightened for one rifle they would open up in another. So my holy grail was not found. For deer I would think 150gr and a 4064 range powder. Our rifles loads have to do moose as well as deer so 180gr and a 4350.

quote:

Originally posted by Doublegun:
Forgot to include the photo to my previous post. I think that I can probably tighten this group by 1" by cleaning up my form and the items I mentioned above. If I do that I'll probably be happy. Thoughts?

In terms of using the Satterley approach, I don't have a chrono and I don't plan to get one.

They are a fantastic tool.....I won't be without one

Finding accurate loads in less then 10 shots is never a bad thing

The "hunt and peck" method wastes components, barrels and time

I don't disagree, but this is the only centerfire that I hunt with (other than an old Ruger 44 mag carbine for thick and heavy cover) and I'm not going to be shooting beyond 120-150 yards in the foreseeable future.

I may play around a little with the load but I think getting more trigger time will do at least as much to tighten my groups as tweaking the load and that's the fun part for me, anyway. I guess my question is how tight is tight given the foregoing?

On the wall at out range was a some words of wisdom by an old shooter. He had been a Palma competitor. Your hunting rifle should give you 1 1/2 MOA accuracy. if not take it to a gunsmith. You should be able to hit a 8" at 100 yards standing, 200 yards kneeling and 300 yards prone.

150gr bullets don't kick as much making practice easier.

Doublegun,

I shot 56 gr of IMR 4350 with a 180 NP for many years. The gun shot about 1.5 MOA consistently for 3 shots. I shot animals out to 400 yards with that combination. I sited in 3"high at 100 and just went hunting. I never felt I was lacking in fire power. As others have stated start around 53 grains and work up a grain at a time.

Mark

So 1.5 MOA is pretty good for a hunting rifle? What does that translate to in terms of grouping at 100-yards?

Simple 1 1/2" , That's good enough for a hunting rifle. One of my 30-06 will give cloverleafs, but that is not a hunting load. It's just range Bang.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:




They are a fantastic tool.....I won't be without one

Finding accurate loads in less then 10 shots is never a bad thing

The "hunt and peck" method wastes components, barrels and time

I have an '03 Springfield that I couldnt get to group, when I crono'ed it the velocities were really low. Like 300 fps below average. The bbl was bad. Replaced it with a budget replacement bbl and now it is a sub moa rifle. Fixed the low velocity issue too. My other 06 is an old National Arms M-98. It is one of those rare rifles with a hot barrel. It produces close to magnum velocities with a typical 06 load and no signs of pressure. If not for a chronograph I would still not know any of this. I just use a cheap crony, but it is VERY useful for getting the real scoop on loads and rifles.

Be careful, velocity comes from pressure.

Per the Nosler reloading manual 56.5 gr of H4340 is pushing a 180 gr Partition at 2,769 at the muzzle of a 24” barrel. Mine is 22 so I think that reduces velocity by ~ 200 fps.

I had a standard M70 3006 that, in a moment of bad decision making I sold to another member of this forum. As I recall that rifle loved this same load and would shoot sub-1 MOA groups all day. Yesterday I swapped out the 4x M8 for a 2-7x VX-x and I’ll probably Head back out to the range this weekend. With a box is loads and determination to clean up my forum.

Used to did 130hp on woodchuck in an 18" Win 670 . IMR3031

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
carpetman:
You've gotta be a candy ass!

Hell I shot over 250 prairie dogs many a day
with my '06 and 110's. No idea the vel or load
now. Plumb hot though. That's all I had besides a .22 for many years. Believe I used 4895 for those too.

One thing that impressed me doing that was there wasn't anything left for the coyotes. Just a red
misted triangle from where they were when hit til it was used up.

Same load did one hell of a blow up job on coyotes too.

Might be your rifle is too light weight to cut recoil down. IF that's it, hang a brick on it.

Just yanking your chain a bit is all with what I did as a kid.

George