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Please don't ask how I wound up with a nice custom based on a M70 Classic LH with a 12 twist Benchmark barrel, but I did. It is set up as an Africa rifle with sights, barrel band swivel mount, etc. I intend to remodel it into a more conventional Western US style. Suggestions please for bullet weight/length for this twist? The rifle will be used primarily for deer. | ||
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I had a palma 30/06 with a 1:13 twist for 155gr bullets. I tried a few diffrent bullets and tried some 174gr sierra match with imr 4064. and it shot great under 1" Dave | |||
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Probably whatever you want that's 180 grains or less. Maybe 190 grain as well. That's a slow twist by .30-06 standards but more than adequate to stabilize 180 and lighter and maybe 190 grain bullets | |||
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Look at it this way; one turn in 12 is the standard .308 Win twist; Now, if it works for any bullet used in the 308, then it will work in the 30-06 better as you get more bullet speed on the 06. | |||
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Since you indicate its a rifle for African use, I would sure give it a workout with 180, 200 and 220 gr. bullets..Might even try the 240 Woodlieghs, then you'll have, in effect, a 318 WR, a real killer of bigger animals.. One thing of sure is, no matter what anyone tells you, you will be way ahead to take it out and try it. I have seen way too many wrong twisted barrels shoot the wrong bullets. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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My wifes Sako has 11 twist and she can shoot 5 shot 180gr. Nos. prts into 1/2 to 5/8 in. all day long. Wish I could do that. Paul Take Trophies - Leave Brass | |||
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If it's for deer, you won't be shooting over 180s anyway, so you should not care what the twist is. As suggested, just shoot it. | |||
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It seems to be popular these days to obsess over twist, even before a shot has been put down the barrel to see the result. Plenty of .30 caliber rifles have 1-12" twists. As dpcd mentioned it is the most common twist found in .308's, and the .300 Weatherby used it for many years before changing to 1-10". One in twelve is typically as good as it gets for hunting-style lead core bullets of 180 grains and less. A heavy monometal bullet (which is much longer than a lead core bullet) or an extremely long ogive on a target style bullet might be a problem, but if a normal 180 soft point doesn't shoot well it will be some problem other than twist. | |||
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It's not actually bullet weight but bullet length. For example, it may not shoot barnes 180s well but could easily shoot standard cup and core 190s but perhaps not accubond LR 190s Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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There is a formula somewhere in Hatcher's that tells you how to calculate the correct twist for a given bullet in a given caliber. I'm not sure if that is the same as the Greenhill formula, but the one thing it does not take into account for stabilizing projectiles is velocity. I gave my copy of Hatcher't to my PH so I cannot look it up, but if memory serves me correctly, the 1:10 twist was developed for a bullet 1.35" long (220 gr)... so basically a pretty long bullet.. which would make sense for a 1:10 twist barrel to handle a bullet in the 170 grain and up range accurately. The 308 was developed for a much shorter 147 grain bullet, which does not require as fast a twist to stabilize. Therefore (my conclusions) a 308 will best handle bullets in the 125 - 170 gr range, and a 1:10 barrel will best handle bullets in the 165 - 220 gr range. After reading all these posts now and thinking about this some more, I'm gonna have to try some 130 grainers in my 308.. NRA Benefactor. Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne | |||
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Thanks to all for the responses. This rifle has been producing 2-4" groups, with just the occasional around an inch. That was with 200 gr Barnes and Swift bullets AND lighter Hawks for leopard. I've been meticulously troubleshooting the rifle and have found nothing wrong, so was suspecting the twist rate. When the weather improves I will do some testing with 150 and 165 gr bullets and a known scope. (The bore looks lovely in the boresope.) | |||
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Brice, My 308 has a 1:10 twist barrel, and it just will not shoot with any consistency a bullet lighter than 168 gr. My 06, with a 1:10 twist likes 180 BT's, but velocity seems to be important with that bullet. anything below 57 grains of 4831 and it's 2 or 3 inch groups.. 58 grains and it tightens up to about an inch consistently. And yes, it took a lot of experimentation and trigger time to figure this all out! NRA Benefactor. Life is tough... It's even tougher when you're stupid... John Wayne | |||
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