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Making your own solid copper bullets
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
Just curious how difficult this is for the home hobbyist with a lathe.

I recognize that there is set up time but what does one really need?

Does it require a cnc machine?

Are there tricky parts to the bullet design?


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10181 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Concho42
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A small collet lathe and knowing how to use it is all you need to form bullets , next a radac wheel to cut each one off the copper bar as you make 1 at a time , brass will also work , .312 for the 30 calibers , metal supply houses will have both copper & brass in 6 ft lengths .


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Posts: 578 | Location: PA | Registered: 21 March 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of ted thorn
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WARNING WARNING....DO NOT use the above advise lightly!!!!!

Brass bullets? Not in my rifles, and not just any copper either.

There are a hundreds of different types of copper and brass all with different hardness and contents of metalurgy.

It can and is being done and there is a forum on A.R. that covers this.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/3621043


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Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
There are a hundreds of different types of copper and brass all with different hardness and contents of metalurgy.

This is a fact......I'd want to know specific metalurgy and know that it was good to go.


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Alberta Canuck
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quote:
Originally posted:

Does it require a cnc machine?



No, but I wouldn't want to do it in any quantity at all without at least a 1950's vintage automatic screw machine.


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Posts: 9685 | Location: Cave Creek 85331, USA | Registered: 17 August 2001Reply With Quote
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VapoDog ; This is a fact......I'd want to know specific metallurgy and know that it was good to go.

Easily obtained , smelt the copper pour into molds swedge and polish .

Works with Lead works with copper also . Some what more involved granted but it will work .

Corbin used to make a copper jacket bullet with lead core maker , a friend bought one .

I used it like 25 -30 years ago . Turning copper bar on a lathe making individual bullets

isn't exactly my idea of an afternoon of fun . Then of course I'm paid more than $ 0.60 an hour for my

skills .
 
Posts: 4485 | Location: Planet Earth | Registered: 17 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
smelt the copper pour into molds


With what...?? Your home arc furnace...??? Copper has a hot working temperature of about 850 degrees centigrade...if you plan on pouring it you'll need to be at least 50% hotter than that...if you could find a home sized Big Grin arc furnace for hobby pouring of copper Roll Eyes ...your electric bill (and the connection) would cost more than your rifle.

As far as what to use in the alloy department...that's a secret but one AR member of repute makes his bullets from lightning rods (110 ETP or there abouts) and they perform just fine. All the drama about barrel wear is just that D-R-A-M-A... the bullet O.D./barrel groove dimension is far more critical to wear/performance/safety....

As far as what equipment you'd need to machine your own...in order to hold any serious tolerance you'd need MODERN CNC equipment...the better the equipment the better the product. There are no shortcuts and like the man says...unless you're making 60 cents an hour it's a lot cheaper to buy something nice than make it yourself... Wink

I don't make my own brass, primers, powder, or stocks for very good reason... Big Grin
 
Posts: 13301 | Location: On the Couch with West Coast Cool | Registered: 20 June 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of ted thorn
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When I am doing low volume 1000/2000 pcs. of turn work in my shop I will wire (EDM) a form tool if tolorance permits from high speed blank and have an apprentice fill the order.

Plunge cut with coolant move the bar stock out to a stop then plunge again. After the first plunge is made and checked for O.D. the next plunge cuts the first one off. But don't forget the hollow point and weight issues that will no doubt reflect tolorance.

Truely a great project for my Dawoo cnc turning center and I can probably program and cut a 1000 or 2 for $2 each in these quan now that raw stock has come down some.


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Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
When I am doing low volume 1000/2000 pcs. of turn work in my shop I will wire (EDM) a form tool if tolorance permits from high speed blank and have an apprentice fill the order.

Plunge cut with coolant move the bar stock out to a stop then plunge again. After the first plunge is made and checked for O.D. the next plunge cuts the first one off. But don't forget the hollow point and weight issues that will no doubt reflect tolorance.


Gonna make some square bullets...?? bewildered
 
Posts: 13301 | Location: On the Couch with West Coast Cool | Registered: 20 June 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
Gonna make some square bullets...?? bewildered

Generating a surface with a turning tol on a CNC machine will produce a far more accurate and better finished product than form tools.....

I thought form tools were a thing of the past.....I made some decent stuff with them on a Hardinge hand screw....but frankly wouldn't attempt to make bullets.....


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of ted thorn
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Vapo, I don't think I realy would either after a re-think.
Even after wire cutting a form tool the best I could do and control cost would be +/- .001 and I wouldn't buy bullets that sloppy so I wouldn't dream of selling them.

And yes form tools are a thing from the past I have been in a toolshop going on 30 years so I am old school in my shop.


As for turning them on the Dawoo just to damb expensive.


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Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
quote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
Gonna make some square bullets...?? bewildered

Generating a surface with a turning tol on a CNC machine will produce a far more accurate and better finished product than form tools.....

I thought form tools were a thing of the past.....I made some decent stuff with them on a Hardinge hand screw....but frankly wouldn't attempt to make bullets.....


You aren't gonna hold any serious tolerance with a form tool or a single ended lathe for tht matter...once that part sticks out into the wind and a tool touches it, it's gonna flop all around and there goes any real precision. You'll also have a nice tit on the base of your bullet from the cut-off....
 
Posts: 13301 | Location: On the Couch with West Coast Cool | Registered: 20 June 2007Reply With Quote
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Picture of vapodog
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quote:
You aren't gonna hold any serious tolerance with a form tool

That was my experience!....agreed!


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Posts: 28849 | Location: western Nebraska | Registered: 27 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of ted thorn
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There is a cut off "tit" even with my cnc turning center...secondary opperation to remove would be the next step.

Mike has taken a great step by posting what he needs in the bullet makeing forum.


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