Have you ever had a split case to the point you had head separation upon bolt extraction? This likely required a special broken-case extractor to remove the top portion of the case from your chamber. What happened when you fired this round? Any experiences out there to share?

I have had several with my 22-250. I was using old brass, reloaded too many times. Nothing happened! I used a brass brush to push the case out and kept on shooting PD's. No change to the rifle at all, shoots just as good as before. All that brass is gone!!

I did deer hunting once. Rifle was a Rem 700 7mm mag with max loads. It was raining very hard and I think water got into the barrel and caused pressures to sky rocket. Easy 100 yard prone shot broadside on a deer and I missed it. After pounding the bolt open with a rock (I was on a fly in hunt with no other choice and in prime brown bear country to boot) The head of the case was stuck onto the bolt face. It came off without to much trouble. I stuck the rifle into a snow berm and the other part of the case fell out of the chamber. Didnt hurt the rifle one bit as I used it for 2 decades after that. And if you are a anti Rem fan, the bolt handle never came off.

I had a savage 99 Take down in 250-300 that had head space trouble would have head sparation ever other round or so. Nothing ever happen besides the trouble of getting them out.

I sent it back to savage to have it taken care of someone stole it inroute. So I didn't have to worry about it any more.

You didn't limit it to rifles, sooooo....

I had a bad batch of remanufactured 40S&W ammo that pulled the head off of 3 of the first 9 I shot. No tap-rack-bang could clear that jam!

Drop the mag, lock back the slide, clear with a pocketknife (the case slid out with little resistance), reload and proceed.

Several thousand rounds later the pistol is still going strong.

if one reloads enough this is going to happen and it's not dangerous.....seems so but it's not.

Using a cleaning brush works well to remove the upper end of the case bur often it comes out with a light tap of the but on the ground.

I've had them in my 300 H&H and my 338/378. On the times that it has happened (4 or 5 over lots and lots of reloads) the round always shot to the same point of aim as the others. I only had trouble getting one of the cases out and that was remedied with a rod with an oversized brush on it. Pulled it right out. Unfortunately the 300 H&H is notorious for stretching so it's something I have to watch, and with the 338/378 I try to squeeze every last round out of the cases that I can.

Thanks for the feedback guys – I appreciate it! I ‘m glad you didn’t have serious problems. For the first time, I had a case-head separation while shooting a full-bore load (yet likely well within 65,000 psi) in my ’06 AI (2920 fps, 180 NPT, Ramshot Mag powder, 26†barrel, very old Super Speed Win case). Like you report, NOTHING HAPPENED, and I didn’t even know it happened. The bullet grouped with the prior shots and there was no drop in velocity. Luckily for me, a shooter at the range had a broken-case extractor that I could use – I had tried the over-sized bronze brush approach, but couldn’t budge it.

To me, case-head separation would qualify as massive brass-case failure, allowing massive escape of gases back into the action. Yet, NOTHING SEEMS TO HAPPEN – at least not to modern bolt-action rifles designed to safely port back-gas escape.

Obviously, one doesn’t want to have this happen in the field – you’d be “up-a-creek-without-a-paddle†as you watched that monster buck walk away. But, none of us blew-up the gun up or got hurt.

According to some gun manufacturers, modern well-constructed bolt-action rifles can withstand 150,000 psi; hence loading in the range of ~65,000 psi (even higher according some of the experience reported on this thread) seems safe to me, even if there’s massive brass-case failure and case-head separation. Your thoughts?

quote:

at least not to modern bolt-action rifles designed to safely port back-gas escape.

I've had it happen to my Remington 760 too.....no problems with that either.

It's usually indicative of excess headspace.....

I believe the rear of the case acts like a seal for the gas and no gas is exposed to the rear of the case head.

Well, it depends on where the case separates and the condition of the separated rear head portion as to how problematic it can be. If the separation is far enough forward that there is enough of the case wall remaining on the head piece to seal the chamber, then not much happens. If, on the other hand, the separation is right at the web, then gas blow rearward past the case head and into the action.

The latter was the case with a .30-06 Sako (should have known much better than to re-use salvage brass fired an unknown number of times in another gun!) Upon firing, the rearward escaping gas volume was enough to dislodge the extractor from its seat. There was no gas escaping toward the shooter, and luckily, both the extractor and extractor spring were found and could be manually replaced without need of gunsmithing. The forward portion of the broken shell was easily removed with a slightly oversize bore brush inserted from the muzzle.

But I have no desire to relive the experience, so I leave "found" brass right where it is ever since.

I've had blown primers lead to dislodgement of the Sako-type extractor and extractor spring. I found both and put things back together without subsequent problems. Still there was no damage to the gun. I always wear eye protection to keep any escaping gases or splattered oils/solvents from getting to my corneas.

I've had several rounds from one box of factory ammo do it to me out of a one month old Mini 14 earlier this summer. I cant remember the brand of ammo. The case split almost perfectly in half. Had to take the rifle home and clear the brass with a cleaning rod. Havent had much trouble with that rifle since I traded it off..

Only had case split at the neck from not anealing them and loading to many times.

A target shooter brought me a gun. He wasn't checking his brass so one of the cases came apart in his 38. The front half of the case ended up half in the chamber and half in the barrel, the bullet left the barrel.Got the case out by some force.

I guess the next logical question is what is the max number of reloads you can safely get out of, say a .308 Win. before you have to worry about it?

For the record, I haven't ever had it happen in anything I reloaded.

Back when Accurate 2230 was first introduced, I was in a "get max velocity mode" and went a bit too far with a 223 Rem. Considerable recoil, a stuck bolt, and a case separation led to a more conservative approach to my loading with new powders.

No damage to me or the gun except for the embarrasment of the event being witnessed by other shooters.

quote:

According to some gun manufacturers, modern well-constructed bolt-action rifles can withstand 150,000 psi; hence loading in the range of ~65,000 psi (even higher according some of the experience reported on this thread) seems safe to me, even if there’s massive brass-case failure and case-head separation. Your thoughts?

Any thoughts regarding the above. I'd love to hear how you feel about this view - that is, it'll take PSI in considerable excess of 100,000 PSI to break-up your bolt-action rifles. I don't know enough about automatics, pumps, and pistols to comment.

quote:

According to some gun manufacturers, modern well-constructed bolt-action rifles can withstand 150,000 psi; hence loading in the range of ~65,000 psi (even higher according some of the experience reported on this thread) seems safe to me, even if there’s massive brass-case failure and case-head separation. Your thoughts?

This is pure uneducated BS....there's a very different situation between a case head separation and a melted down case. I'd agree that one can run pressures in the 70Kpsi range and all is well.....maybe trash the case because the primer pocket won't hold the next primer....but to go to consideralbe more pressure results in the flowing of brass....the shooter no longer has the "cup" of the case head holding the gas back from the bolt face.

One can break case heads ar 45,000 psi...it's merely continuous stretching of the case due (primarily) to excess headspace and full length resizine of the brass. Eventually the brass thins immediately ahead of the web and severs. As has been testified to by many here....this don't release gas. A melted case or a ruptured case will and with drastic results in some cases.

It's very prudent for reloaders to stay away from excessive (over 65,000PSI) pressures for this reason. The difference between 65,000 and meltdown pressures is the safety margin we all like or should like.
Have you ever actually seen a blown action?....ever welded one together with the brass case?...please just accept that casehead separation and excess pressures are not at all related....they're totally separate issues.

Having said all that there's another issue.....and during WWII it happened.....cases were made of steel in some instances.....yes...there's some steel .30-06 cases around the country.....capable of holding far greater pressures and temperatures than brass.....
Hell.....why'd I go and bring that up???

I had one do that recently in a 22/250.

I just used a 243 cleaning brush on the end
of a cleaning rod and that took it out
just fine...

I also bought a piece of welding rod ( or something
similar down at the hardware store for a couple of bucks just to have as a back up in the field...

It normally happens when the brass has been worked or reloaded too many times...

I keep my brass in lot numbers of 25 or so, in plastic freezer bags with a 3 x 5 card that lists each loading and what I loaded it with inside with the brass....

Depending on caliber and load used, I give most of them a life span of 8 to 10 loadings then toss the Lot Number....

Or like yesterday, I have noticed the last three reloads on a batch of 223, cases that I have had 3 different bodies with cracks on the case body...

So I tossed the entire batch....But they had been loaded 10 or 12 times.... So I got my money's worth out of them.. as they were Lake City Brass from Cabelas with a price of $35.00 per thousand...

Cheers
seafire

I bought a 6.5 Arisaka that turned out to have a broken case in the chamber. A gunmsith got it out with Cerosafe. He said he wrecked his best cleaning rod doing it.

Later I had a 10mm case separate at midpoint in a Glock 20, and I used Cerosafe to get it out.


About the .308: I have shot thousands of rounds, and never seen a separated case. But I could get one in three shots if I wanted. Push the shoulder back too far. Clean the chamber and case of lube. Fire. Repeat. Repeat.

Yep, just had two near head separations with my Steyr .300 H&H. All my fault, too hot a load in old old once fired cases.

LLS

I have a Steyr Manlicher Mde. 1956. I am scared to reload for for the way it stretches factory brass. Crazy.

had it happen in a 303 once. Reloaded the cases to many times. Took a 44 cal cleaning brush and pulled out the case. No other problem.
Doug

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:

quote:

According to some gun manufacturers, modern well-constructed bolt-action rifles can withstand 150,000 psi; hence loading in the range of ~65,000 psi (even higher according some of the experience reported on this thread) seems safe to me, even if there’s massive brass-case failure and case-head separation. Your thoughts?

Any thoughts regarding the above. I'd love to hear how you feel about this view - that is, it'll take PSI in considerable excess of 100,000 PSI to break-up your bolt-action rifles. I don't know enough about automatics, pumps, and pistols to comment.

Vapodog's initial comment about being "uneducated" is correct. Nothing wrong with being "ignorant" about any subject, since it can be corrected with a good education on the appropriate subject.

In the situation AIU mentions it involves courses in Failure Analysis which include segments on Cumulative Metal Fatigue(CMF). You can do a very short study of this effect at home by bending a piece of bailing wire (or a wire coat hanger for those in town) in the same spot and pulling on it after each bending. If there is no CMF, you will not be able to break it.

Depending on the initial characteristics of the wire, the number of bends, degree of bending, and strength of your pull - all effect when the wire will fatigue and reach the breaking point. Similar to the design and materials used in the rifle, number of shots, how much Pressure of each previous Load and the Pressure of the last shot - all effect when the CMF allows a rifle to come apart.
---

If a person chooses to ignore the "wisdom" provided in the Reloading Manuals and believes as AIU's post mentions, then they increase the potential to witness a CMF failure first hand.

The biggest Rookie Reloader indicator is seeing anyone mentioning that using "overloads" is SAFE. What they think they know and what they actually know, leaves a lot to be learned.

A post like AIU's is the very best reason why you should NEVER buy a used firearm. You just don't know what CMF a used firearm has been subjected to.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackley Improved User:
Have you ever had a split case to the point you had head separation upon bolt extraction? This likely required a special broken-case extractor to remove the top portion of the case from your chamber. What happened when you fired this round? Any experiences out there to share?

Yes - I've had this happen with a SMLE in .303 British, and an M71 Winchester, .348 WIN. caliber. Both "springy" actions that will allow incipient separations even with mild loads after four or five reloadings of a piece of brass. Both cases gave visual indications of stretching, and were loaded once too often-I should have chucked them earlier!

Nothing happened, but of course the front part of the rupured case stayed in the chamber. A bore-size brass cleaning brush on a cleaning rod was sufficient to remove the piece of the case......

Case-head separations are undesireable, but not necessarily disasterous.... As mentioned above, it depends on where the rupture occurs, and if it leaves enough of the case sidewall intact between the head and the rupture to seal the breech from escaping gas.

Here's a case (308) from a M60 that apparently had a problem. Not mine.



And here is a 270 case with an almost head separation. also not mine.




And finally a 2/250 case just begining to have a split neck. I used a fiber optics light to view the split. This was mine.

The head separation I report here occurred just above the web - a couple of mm's below the crack shown above. Hard to believe this was enough to allow obturation and sealing of the chamber. There were some escaping gases, but no other damage, because of the back-ported and strong well-built actions.

had (2) head separations w/ 30-06 reloads which i guess had been full lgt sized too many times. one was in a colt sauer, the other a savage 110. in both those cases i never knew anything was wrong till i wondered where the rest of the empty was.

also had a case split w/ some 7.62 nato loads of i don't even know what origin. in a cheap batch of 1k rds i counted i think 7 diff headstamps. one particular h/s had the primers staked in in 3 places, 120deg apart radially. in an fal, fortunately the last round in the magazine, the case split along one of these stab crimps. blew the floorplate off but that was it. luckily i wasn't shooting from the sitting position. had safety glasses on and got a facefull of dust and whatnot off the concrete bench. went thru the remainder of those and tossed all the rest.

in none of the 3 incidents was either the gun or myself damaged. altho that last one, had i not had on glasses could have been a little worse.

roger

Had one with a Kimber/Oregon 223....My own stupidity caused it (not sized correctly as it never occurred again)....case came out with a brass brush inserted from the muzzle pushing it out....

Have a neat little M/S carbine in 6.5x54 that shows incipient case separation after one firing....driving me nuts so am going to see if 4-D can make me a sizing die that will "work" in its obviously oversized chamber.....probably why I got such a "deal" on it when I bought it....

Always WISE to wear EYE PROTECTION! Blown primers and case-head separations allow considerable back flow of gases - gases with small particles that can get into your cornea and cause damage. Glasses protect against that - but otherwise, I've encountered no damage from either event. Both events can occur with "normal" PSIs, because of over stretching from TOO-MANY-TIMES FIRED cases. I'm getting broken-case extractors for each of my calibers, in case this happens again.

quote:

events can occur with "normal" PSIs, because of over stretching from TOO-MANY-TIMES FIRED cases.

Let me repeat.....the primary cause is ezcess headspace. A case head can separate on the first reloading under extreme conditions......and yes at even mild pressures.
The Hornady loading manual has a beautiful explanation as to what happens and what causes it to separate where it does.

It's another good reason for partial resizing or just neck resizing.

It's also why I like to custom chamber my guns to the absolute minimum headspace......even to chambering to match my reloading die plus .002.

quote:

It's also why I like to custom chamber my guns to the absolute minimum headspace

It's one reason I partial full length resize so that I feel some resistance as I close the bolt...crush fitting the brass to my chamber for every round. It usually helps accuracy too, YMMV!