To quote Ray Atkinson in another thread on this forum..........

"Never liked the 225 and 230 gr. bullets (in .338) as they are neither fish nor fowl...kind of a compromise bullet IMO...."

This parralled my thinking (oh, no) on several calibers. Like the 165 grain .308 and the 140 grain .270. Does anyone else has similar thoughts on this?

Rich Elliott

Sectional density of a 225gr .338 is closer to that of a 180gr .308 than to a 165gr. I've never considered the 180gr to be a compromise bullet.

I have always liked the 165gr bullet in .308 caliber.It shoots plenty flat and performs well on medium sized game and larger game as well if premium bullets are used.I consider all .277" bores to be compromises reguardless of the bullet weight.The 25-06 shoots flatter with less recoil for deer and the 7mm's are better suited to larger game.

I've always liked both the 225 grain .338 bullet and the 165 grain .308 bullet. They both seem to do just what I need.

Lightweights are usually used by speed freaks, and top end stuff by the magnum crowd. Since for the most part I'm in neither one of those groups, I tend to like "compromise" bullets for specific applications.

I didn't allege my choice as fact, just my opinnion..I like the 165 gr. in a .308 win. but I like the 180 in a 30-06 and the 200 in a 30 cal magnum...

I don't have any use for the 225's and 230's in the .338 for myself other than the 230 gr. failsafes which I think are fine.. The 210 Nosler has been my favorite bullet and it will out penitrate the 225 and 230's, other than the Failsafe on game...I have used the 225/230 grain bullets extensively and finally came to my decision on the subject base on a large number of animals shot with all of these bullets and it is just my opinnion based on that, nothing more.

I have settled on several bullets in the .338 based on the above and they are: 210 gr. Nosler, 240 gr. North Fork, 300 gr. Woodleigh. the North Fork is half monolithic and is long for weight. The more I use the 300 gr. Woodleigh the more impressed I am with it...

What anyone else uses is fine with me, and I have no reason to take issue on whatever they use, it has no effect on me...This is someone elses discussion not mine....

Rich -- I have taken several Elk with a 225 Barnes XLC with one of my .340 Wby's, it is a super accurate bullet for that rifle. I do like the heavier bullets however and have now converted to the 240 grain North Fork, which matchs the accuracy of the Barnes. I also like the 250 grain Nosler Partition Gold, having taken Moose, Deer and Elk with it. Another .340 likes the 240 North Fork and 250 Barnes X best. I have never tried the 300 grainers, figuring with the accuracy provided by the bullets mentioned could no be improved upon and use larger chamberings for larger or dangerous game. Good shooting.

[ 05-18-2003, 23:20: Message edited by: phurley ]

How about the 225 grain Barnes X? Seems like it might have the best of both worlds - plenty long so good SD and BC, and light enough to get a real nice flat trajectory. The monometal design expands well and holds together in my experience too. I'm thinking of starting with them in my .338. Comments?

Well, phurley beat me, partly. Any other experience with the Barnes?

[ 05-18-2003, 23:21: Message edited by: DesertRam ]

Yeah, I guess it's more of a cartridge thing than just the caliber. .308 Win. and 165's seem to go together but it's 180's that make more sense (to me) in a .30-06. Perhaps the 225 grain conventional (no mono's please ) bullet would be ideal for a .338-06. Another compromise bullet that comes to mind is the 225 grain .358 for the Wheleon. I would prefer the 250 grain. Now how about the 225 grain .358 in the .358 Win? Makes better sense. Can't get any more argument out of Ray so I'm giving up!

Rich Elliott

Like everything else, it all depends.

We don't have any big stuff in Virginia and the .308 and .30-06 with 165 grain bullets are pretty much the standard deer rifles.

Biggest thing you might run across in the woods would be a 300 pound black bear and those are scarce.

You folks who have elk and moose and big bears might like 180s and most of the fellows who hunt bear on purpose here use them, but for the rest of us the 165 grain is just right,

a 225 gr bullet at close to 2900 fps in a 338 or the same bullet in a 340 at close to 3000 fps is quite a compromise. It compromises the hell out of anything I've ever shot with one !

I guess it's all a matter of personal choice. I never was a big fan of the 80gr PSP bullet in my .243Win., the 120gr B.T. in 7mm Mag., or the 110gr HP or 125gr SPSP in my .308Win. Maybe it's all in what shoots for us. I'm sure there are others who are thrilled with some of the bullets I mentioned. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

First, I haven't successfully hunted any big game yet. (really, not from lack of trying).

I developed the load for my 06ai with 165 grain bullets, didn't think of going up to 180's because I have a load for them in my Norma. For some weird reason I ended up with a bunch of rifles that are all so close to one another that instead of working up multiple loads I decided just to do one for each gun. My 35whelen was a gift, so I have only hunted with it once. My stepfather who gave it to me carried both 225 grain loads for it and 275 grain barnes loads for "that one that he just couldn't let get away".

Now that I read this though I might try the 180 in my 06. What kind of velocity are you all getting with that? My rifle is Ackley improved with a 24" military barrel (03a3). I break 3000fps with the 165.

While we're at it, what weights do you all recommend in 270win, 264winmag, 7mmRem? I have not yet developed the loads for these and with the 270 I just have been buying 130 grain factory.

Thanks all.

Red

I guess I dont think of midweight bullets as a compromise but more of being flexible. When I have the .308 deer and pig are on the menu so I need a bullet that will expand on the deer but not fall apart on a pig so I use the 165 SST for both. Before I used 150 SST for deer and 180 failsafe for pig but that was asking for problems as far as having the right load at the right time. I am switching to the 165 deep shok because I like a bit deeper penetration without giving up powder space to 180's or a monolithic like the barnes (never could get those damn things to shoot anyway).

I take your post as a generic question: To compromise or no. Circumstances dictate the philosophy I think. A 30-06 and a 180 gr bullet will suffice for North America if there is no alternative. It does nothing with headline grabbing aplomb but the job gets done. My circumstance is different, and I own neither a 30-06 or any 180 gr bullets. I'm of the 'one gun, one load' persuasion and think each gun has it's application.

Dago Red,

"Now that I read this though I might try the 180 in my 06. What kind of velocity are you all getting with that? My rifle is Ackley improved with a 24" military barrel (03a3). I break 3000fps with the 165.

While we're at it, what weights do you all recommend in 270win, 264winmag, 7mmRem? I have not yet developed the loads for these and with the 270 I just have been buying 130 grain factory."

For what it's worth...
I don't know what you might get with the 180 in the .30-06 AI but I'm guessing around 2,850 fps.
Close to .300 H&H Mag. velocity. I've settled on the 150 gr. Nosler at a bit over 2,900 fps. This from a 22 inch barrel using O'Connor's load of 59 gr. H-4831, WW cases and WLRP's. If I were planning on using it for Pronghorn I would consider working up a 130 grain load but if it didn't give at least 150 more fps I would probably just switch to Nosler Balistic Tip or Hornady 150's for the prairie goats. I haven't used the .264 or 7MM but I've always suggested that clients bringing the 7 MM Mag either handload 160 gr. Nosler's (Partition) or bring Federal Premium's so loaded. They've always preformed well. There are better cartridges available but if I were to use a .264 Win. Mag. I would probably go with the 140 Grain Nosler's.
That would be a good pronghorn load. The only experience I've actually had with that cartrdge was when an acquaintance was using it to shoot graundhogs at some distance. He laid it accross his car hood and the blast blew out his windshield!
Rich Elliott

With factory 22" barrels my two 30.06 will shoot same 180SST load at 2730 and 2740. The pressure is moderate with a full case load.MOA .OKShooter has a book on loading the 30.06.Some of his loads are a little quicker.