How many of you guys shim between your dies and press on occasion? Like, for instance, you have two (or more) different rifles chambered for the same caliber, and you don't want to reset your die every time you change from one to the other. Set it for the tight one and then just add a shim or two under it when you want to load the longer one. Or say you need to make some fine adjustments that are sometimes hard to get just right, just throw a shim under it.

For any of you guys that do this, where do you get your shims? I made a set of punches this morning to cut some shims, and cut a half dozen rings out of a Coke can. It worked real good, came out real neat. Looks to me the thickness is right at .0035, I was thinking I need some thinner ones as well. Anyone know of a readily available material that might work? I can't really think of anything thinner than an aluminum can.

Looking forward to a discussion about this, maybe it won't work the way I'm thinking. Let me know ya'lls opinion.

I get my 7/8 shims from the auto parts store or a farm supply.The machine washers are found in several thickness.

I do use shims but for not as fine ajustment as you. I have a couple of thin (.025) washers that I use either together or by themselves to partial FL resize my cases. Then only when I get tight fitting cases do I full length resize.
Your fine use of fine adjustments has its use too. As I see that Redding does the same thing by offering a competition shellholder set (5 shellholders varying .002 is steps). Also spacer rings so a 38die set can be used for 357Mag.
So your thoughts are valid since others are paying for the option.

I've use 7/8" SAE and grade 8 washers they are smaller in dia and harder than the regular grade 3 and 5 washers. I've also used the grade 3 and 5's...I had to find the hard ones at a tractor repair shop...the others were available at Home Depot and Diamond's or just about any home improvement store.

I've made "horseshoes", out of various thicknesses of brass and steel shim material cut to just fit around the base of the case, over the top of the shell holder...easy to insert.

I also made alum and steel cylinders turned to the same OD as the shell holder and ID slightly larger than the case to slip over the case when using 45-70 dies to load 45-90, 100 and 120 cases for controlling the sizing and bullet seating. You could do the same with just about any straight walled case...38/357, 44 sp/44 mag, etc.

I've only done these proceedures for specific rifles and specific reasons...and once determined, the information is noted and the die is locked and left alone until the need is no longer there and the dies are "recycled".

Now that Redding has their Competition shell holders in 0.005" increments I don't see any need to make shims, I can custom set any die to fit close, pick out a shell holder then note what shell holder I used. You can also buy Comp SH's in any thickness you want by ordering them from Redding...I have some ranging up to 0.025" oversize. They are definitely more expensive than shim material, but a hell-of-a-lot easier and more uniform to use.

I usually just purchased a new sizer die for the specific rifle if it falls ouside the normal range and keep it in a separate box. I have a couple of wildcats, a 338-06 and a 250 Sav AI that were way outside the "normal" range that needed 0.020"+ and 0.015"+ shell holders, respectively. Up until the Redding CSH were available and after I had identified the problem of short brass life, I used hard "horseshoe" washers. Once identified and set, the specific shoulder to base dimension is pretty much locked in...it doesn't really change except for the brass loosing its elasticity.

Going the other way I usually just chuck the die in the lathe and grind off a few thou.

I build my own rifles so I can control the amount of "headspace" for any case. I buy the dies first, resize a piece of brass and use that as a headspace guage to check the SAAMI headspace guage. Some of the sizing proceedures to make a guage are a little more involved, but not all that complicated.

For the most part I don't see much need to muck about doing a shim job. If the rifle is for built specifically for target/competition work, you need to fit the dies to the rifle and not swap them around if you are going to maintain competition quality ammo...once set for a specific load, leave them alone.

For hunting and for factory chambers...for the most part...there are way more things that affect accuracy than a few thou difference in the shoulder/base dimensions.

I think the theory of shimming should be explored thoroughly by those interested...it can and does point up many interesting things concerning "custom ammo" and where and how the cost of accuracy is actually produced. This particular aspect of the shooting sport is mostly lost on the average shooter, not really needed and is more of a time waster if you're just interested in "getting you buck" each year.

Buy yourself some good books on reloading, building rifles, gunsmithing, customizing...Brownells has most of the best. You can learn more, without the extraineous "stuff" you find on the net, in a shorter time. 6mmBR, Precision shooting, varminting, and long range shooting forums have much more specific and germane information that this site has, and many of the better posters are found on multiple forums...you just have to wade through the muck.


But I warn you...if you start down this "I wonder" path, expect to start spending large amounts of time and money chasing that elusive perfect group...you will spend more time on the bench, getting all anal and scrunched up and picayune over "measurements" than you will spend having fun shooting squirrels or targets. ROFLMAO Hahahahahahahah

Luck

That is a wonderful idea!!! I always had a different set of dies for those situations! You can buy shim stock too and make your own.

I saw the competition shellholder set, and at nearly $50 a set that could set a fellow back pretty quick, when you are talking different cartridges with different case heads. Cheaper to buy another sizing die in most cases, unless you knew exactly which shellholder you were needing. Lots of good information so far, some I had thought about before, some I hadn't. I appreciate the detailed responses, they have gotten me thinking about several things. Looks like this may turn into a pretty good discussion.

What propmted this subject for me is I have two 7x57's, one has "normal" headspace, but the other is really tight. I just thought it would be pretty simple to set the die up for the tight one, and when I needed to do the normal one just figure out how much to shim it and keep that number written down. Put "X" number os shims between the die and press before you screw it in an bingo, no adjustment. I love precision, but time can be a big factor with me as well nowadays. Shims would also be a fast way to make repeatable changes for testing as well.

Good ideas fellas, I appreciate it.

Some use a feeler gauge also, but i like the soda can shim for bolt actions. Put a hole in it with a paper punch for the decaping pin. The feeler gauge does not square the die with the shell holder as it should.

onefunzr2-
What is funny is that I order from McMaster probably once or twice a week here at work. While I knew they had shim stock, I wasn't expecting a match this good. Follow the links and you can find one premade, the right diameter, any thickness you want. Cool.

I use a thin washer between the shell holder and the Lee collet die in cal 375HH, to have the the shoulder set the headspace, rather than the belt.

If it hasen't been mentioned yet. Go to you're local hardware store and in the electrical department pick up some reducing washers, there inexpensive and you can stack them until you're desired depth.

Steve

I have a set of 7/8 washers that I ground to different thicknesses starting at .015 and going up in .005 increments.

I use them all the time and have made notes in my loading log book on what stack height to use with what gun.

I had an order going out to McMaster-Carr yesterdy evening here at work, so I ordered a package of shims with it. Part number 3088A165, 7/8" ID, 1 3/8" OD, steel, .002 thick. Package of 10 for $6.89. Can't beat that for the money. Same capabilities as the competition shellholder set but works for all cartridges for alot less money. The coke can shims fit perfect, they are right at .0035, and i cut the center out of a thin stainless washer (.058) to use to space up for neck sizing vs FL sizing if needed.

I think I am set up now, time to do some experimenting. At least, that is, as soon as I get finished re-organizing and straightening up my loading bench. It's a mess but I made some serious progress last night. I have a bunch of annealing to do as well.

All the ideas are good...and Yes the shell holders are pricey but you only have to buy for the case head size you use.

Again...it depends on how deep you want to get into this "measurement" thing, there are always work arounds and need is the mother of invention.

I have looked for but never found any round shims or shim materials.

I've been at this for a long time and started developing the pieces and parts way back, so when Redding came out with their goodies I grabbed them.

What you are basically doing is just backing out the sizer die and using the shims as a standardized reference.

One thing I HAVE found is unless you "square" the die with reference to centerline of the ram and die you can get off center sizing...not much and not worth whizzing about when it comes to "normal" hunting accuracy...but enough to play Hobb with long range target or varminting hunting.

Putting the shim between the die and press can cause the same offset problem as backing off the die and "partially" sizing.

That is why the Redding Comp SH work so well...you can run the ram up against the sizer die, hold pressure on it as you lock it down, keeping all the flex and "break over" OUT of the linkage and the sizer will square itself to the top of the press and the ram.

You can also get around the "unsquareness" problem by using a squared piece of roundstock drilled out to fit over a case between the shell holder and the die bottom, the same as the spacers I used in reloading the 45-120 cases using 45-70 dies.

I have a range outside my loading house and did some fairly extensive testing of neck only sizers, "partial sizing" by backing out the sizer die, and locking down the sizer as I mentioned above, and the amount of neck sizing, using Redding Type S bushing dies, both neck and FL sizers AND two other brands of standard sizing dies. That took one full year, two periods between snow seasons, not including my regular rat or hunting times.

I used my Sav 223 HB Varminter, Ruger swithbarrel 308 medium barrel hunter, Sav switchbarrel 3006 and 300 WM and my Rem 338-06. I also did a few 416 Taylors.

The only way to keep the brass squared up and the lowest runout was to use a shell holder, square the ram, shell holder, dies, then lock down the die. Other wise the runout would start increasing.

243wxb said it all, feeler gauges are good for many things but by "feeling" on only one side will only exacerbate an already worrysome problem.

I could keep the runout down to 0.002" or less for the most part by following this proceedure...with factory chambers...and almost 0.000" with tuned or blueprinted rifles.

The rifles I built or had built and were "blueprinted" didn't have the runout problem as long as I used FL bushing type dies...even the old Lee hammer in or Wilson type hand dies.

You also have to tune your press...something that many never think about. There is some information on doing this online.

The Savages also got around the case base squareness problems by having a floating bolthead, which is one reason why they are so accurat out of the box.

Most of this type of work depends on just how accurate and precise you are with your measurments, the level of accuracy and precision your equipment is at, the level of accuracy inherent in your shooting tool, the level of YOUR shooting ablility and a host of other minutia.

You will have to start out with an already proven, highly accurate rifle and be proficient in shooting skills before all your hard work will show anything.

Doing all this work and digging around for information and shooting practice WILL do you worlds of good as long as you keep you mind open and not jump to too many conclusions.

Repeatablility is the key...if you can only shoot one GREAT target once, the the next one is a shotgun pattern, all you did was just prove to yourself you need to look at all the parameters again and keep on working.

I know...been there, done that, many times and so has thousands of other shooters.

Best places to go are 6mmBR, Precision Shooting, Long Range Shooting, Small Game Hunting or check out some of the other "accuracy" forums. 6mmBR is one of the best.

Not to beat an old horse to death, but the wheel was invented a long time ago. It is much easier to find out what HAS been done and learn from it, than try to redo it again. I continually find newer information, tools, results online and shuck some of the "Old school" things I've done...not all, you see...some of that "secret knowledge" is still secret. Education is a contining process unless you just shut down...

Luck

Thanks for taking the time to post about this FOOBAR. I used to subscribe to Precision Shooting and The Varmit Hunter back in the early 90's, when I first bought my 40-XB. Subscribed for several years and read/researched alot about precision reloading. I was single then, and had the time and money to play with shooting. Marriage and kids slows that kind of thing down substantially though. For several years my rifle needs shifted much more to "hunting accuracy" style rigs as I had young ones learning to hunt, and just keeping everyone armed and dangerous.

The boys are maturing now though and the range is starting to stretch again. My youngest sons Remington is at the 'smiths right now getting worked. Mike Bryant is just up the road from me and he is blueprinting it and screwing a Hart .270 Win barrel on it. It should shoot when it comes home here in a month or two, he knows his business for sure.

Trueing up my press is something I need to read up on again, it has been awhile since I studied up on that. In fact, my whole system is in need of a re-vamp and tuneup. It has been awhile since I played the precision reloading game, and my skills are rusty as well. My equipment is good, I just gotta get all the cobwebs dusted out, figuratively speaking.

BTW, the shims came in and they could not be more perfect for the application. They look like they were made specifically for it. That is an awesome source for them if anyone is interested.

Here's what you want....I got a set and love em!!!! Cheaper than cheap too!! Perfect answer combined with a headspace measuring tool.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/6170/s

Ideal...two sets will cover a lot of territory...

I never had sense enough to market the items I came up with over the years and the timing wasn't right either. I was making a type of Stoney/Hornady headspace gauge and bullet ogive measuring tool a long time before they came out and so were lots of other benchresters, everyone had their own ideas and little doodads to make things more uniform and to reduce as much variation as possible in bullets, brass, powder measuring, primers etc...at the time there wasn't much of a market for those items.

Times have changed for sure and the internet/mass marketing has opened up the world...and left me behind....hahahahahah...no matter, the journey is what's important, not the end.

Yeah...those sweet young things and crawly critters that result can get in the way of some things. Their worth it if it all works out right. Mike B definitely knows his trade...I learned many new things from his pictures.

Again, just like in golf, bowling, pool and shooting...uniformity in all aspects and consistency in delivery are the keys to making a hunting day much more enjoyable.

Luck

I use shims I bought from Sinclair International.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/pr...etail_list/Die-Shims

I set my dies up to F/L resize and then use the shims to PF/L resize without having to re-set my die.
I've never thought to use shims as a means to adjust the die for different rifles. I've always loaded for the tightest and called it happy or used a totally different die.
I think you've come up with an excellent idea.

That set is perfect, just what a guy would need!