I intend to neck turn all my rifle's cases. My question is - do I first fire-form the cases, then necksize and then neck turn the cases, then neck-size again? Would it give different results if I necksize first and then fire-form and then necksize again?

Why? Are you shooting benchrest competition?

Why, is it a tight neck? determine if the heavy side is on the inside or outside of the neck. some turn after some before fire forming but only turn to about 40 to 60% of the neck surface.
if the neck measures about .0125 to about .017.. I would not go below the .0125

Use an expander mandrel first the turn the necks. Make sure you cut into the shoulder some to help avoid getting donuts....

Unless you are doing it for a tight neck you are wasting your time.

If you just want to uniform the necks, run them through your full length sizing die then neck turn. If you need to fire-form them,then this is the time to fire form. Then if you feel you need to touch them up then repeat the process. If you turn them into the shoulder, be careful to just touch the shoulder. Your neck turning tool should have an angle on the cutter to make this possible. Too deep a cut will have you loosing necks in your chamber. If this happens, a bronze bristle brush will usually pull it right out. A good ball micrometer will help to determine if they are uniform. If you are cutting them for a tight neck chamber then you need to seat a bullet and then measure the outside diameter of your dummy loaded round. Good luck.

quote:

Unless you are doing it for a tight neck you are wasting your time

+1

What has always worked best for me is to first measure the diameter of the mandrel which is part of your neck turning tool to be used.

Then, I neck size the cases. After that, I expand them so that the inside diameter of the case neck is the same diameter as the neck-turner's mandrel.

That makes it possible to get a good fit to the mandrel (with no slop), and still not have to "Jam" the case in over the mandrel when turning the case necks.

I also find it best to turn the case necks twice at the same setting. As you no doubt know, the necks will thin a tiny, tiny bit more when fired after turning, and turning twice both makes them smoother finished, and prevents them from being slightly thinner that you actually want.

It takes a bit of cut & try to discover what setting your neck turner will require to deliver exactly what you want, so plan on cutting and shooting a number of cases before you find the "sweet spot" .

And, of course, I am speaking of benchrest full diameter neck turning.

For hunting and plinking purposes, I don't neck turn at all. I don't buy hunting rifles with "tight necks" which require neck turning of cases to make them usable.

And as a group of even 1.5" at 100 yards will hit the life sustaining clockwork of any deer or antelope out to at least 400 yards, I don't need any better than that.

In my hi-power target competition days, I found the military ball ammo issued to shooters on the line could be counted on to hold the 12" 10-ring at 1,000 yards when shot from a properly match-prepared rifle fired by a highly-skilled shooter.

So, for other than benchrest shooting, I think most folks are just helping their shooting by giving their selves more confidence, if they neck-turn their cartridge cases.

Many thanks for your replies!! I plan to neck turn only for making case necks uniform and to improve accuracy on my reloads. I am not a Benchrest Shooter, but like my loads to form tight groups. I use my reloads for hunting and target shooting. I have both reloaded brass and new brass. I have a Foster Neck Turning tool and a Sinclair neck expander die.

Fire form, resize, neck turn.
Unless you are cutting the brass to fit a precision chamber, you are really just cleaning up the necks. So there's no need to get involved in a bunch of measuring. That is to say, set your cutter so you are cutting 75-80% of the neck. On some cases, it will be more, on some, less.

After you've fire formed you brass, set some aside so you can load it and make a blind test against the neck turned brass to see if it's worth the effort.

When I was shooting factory matches, I used neck turned brass and did indeed get greater accuracy compared to unturned brass. HOWEVER, it was significant only in competition. In the real world of hunting, it wasn't enough to make it worthwhile.

This is something I think everybody should try. It keeps you off the streets during the time between hunting season and spring fishing season. Have fun and keep good records. Of course, in order to see if you are indeed getting greater accuracy, you'll need to brush up on your bench technique also. If you live where the snow is up to your ass, you can do that by practicing dry firing on the kitchen table.

Many knowledgeable neck turners will (if they turn hunting cases)turn the neck, so on average 80% of the neck surface is cut.
No matter what the nay Sayers are telling you, if you feel that uniform case necks make you more accurate, it will.

muck

quote:

Originally posted by muck:

No matter what the nay Sayers are telling you, if you feel that uniform case necks make you more accurate, it will.

muck

Actually, the same could be said about any of the anal, placebo actions taken during reloading. Weighing cases, uniforming primer pockets, chamfering the inside of the flash hole, etc comes to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:

quote:

Originally posted by muck:

No matter what the nay Sayers are telling you, if you feel that uniform case necks make you more accurate, it will.

muck

Actually, the same could be said about any of the anal, placebo actions taken during reloading. Weighing cases, uniforming primer pockets, chamfering the inside of the flash hole, etc comes to mind.

Amen brother!!!

There are a great many here who agree, that unless your a bench rest shooter that these steps are a waist their time, as they put it. That's fine, for those who live life at a hundred miles an hour, (meaning they feel they have better, more important things to do), hope your not.And truthfully, it probably not necessary, but if you do it correctly, it can't hurt, and may help, whether it's noticeable to you or not. If it gives you confidence and assurances for your own peace of mind then it's worth it. Let's face it, the manufacture's of reloading equipment will sell that neck turner or bullet concentric gauge to ANYONE who "want's to spend time making a better reload for their firearm. In addition, your choosing to spend time learning about what makes a loaded cartridge work best for your rifle. It's called therapy brother!

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:

quote:

Originally posted by muck:

No matter what the nay Sayers are telling you, if you feel that uniform case necks make you more accurate, it will.

muck

Actually, the same could be said about any of the anal, placebo actions taken during reloading. Weighing cases, uniforming primer pockets, chamfering the inside of the flash hole, etc comes to mind.

Once again spot on.
Much of this sport, (and many others), have a big mental aspect.
If you believe your "better load" is why you shoot better ......
Plug in what ever brass prep,loading technique makes you confident your loads will preform beyond your "needs".
Your mind will be free to concentrate on marksmanship fundamentals.

muck

Nice thread! roger

Funny

I want to learn how to do "X"

You always get a pile of "why" and "no you don't"

I have yet to turn a neck so I have no advice to provide

I couldn't help but see more than just a few telling you that you have no business doing so.

Oh come on, Ted. I think there was some good info in this thread. but also, some folks do indeed try to keep folks from having to invent the wheel over and over and over.

I have shot BR for about 30 years. I am anal about everything. I do the neck turning, primer pocket work, and flash hole uniforming. I have a fireforming barrel that lets me fireform to my chamber first and then I do my brass machining.
For my hunting rifles, if it will shoot MOA or less to 250 yards with a cold clean or dirty barrel, I waste no barrel life trying to improve it. I don't hunt any animals that need more accuracy than that. I don't care about impressing anyone at the range. I do not have any trouble with the folks that do this, I just have better things to do with my time.

first thing you do is measure the height from the bottom of your chamber to the centerline of your barrel.
then you try and figure out how to get thicker brass to make the two things line up.

quote:

Originally posted by Lamar:
first thing you do is measure the height from the bottom of your chamber to the centerline of your barrel.
then you try and figure out how to get thicker brass to make the two things line up.

Do what? I thought the OP asked about neck turning.