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I have reloaded shotshell for about 15 years and pistol for a few years. I recently bought a Ruger M77 in .257 Roberts and I want to reload to improve accuracy, get a better selection of ammo than most mfg. sell and save a little money on ammo. So I am now taking up Rifle reloading and have a few questions. 1. For purposes of starter and Max loads, how interchangable are the different brands of cases? If Speer publishes a given load for their bullet with Federal cases and I have a bunch of Hornady brass can I still use the same start and Max. loads? What do you do if no one publishes a recipe for your chosen bullet/powder/primer combination in the brass you have? I realise that when I find a load that works very well in my rifle, I immediately want to start using those brands of components. Same case, same primer, same powder, and same bullet. In shotshell reloading there are hundreds of published loads for lots of different combinations. You stick very closely to the recipes and don't swap components unless the manufacturer say the components are equivelant. There seem to be a lot less different loads for a given calibre of rifle cartridges. 2. From reading the forum I understand that Winchester made the Frontier brass for Hornady. Can I treat these as the full equivelant of Winchester brass? Should I segregate the Frontier brass from the Win brass for best accuracy? 3. After shooting new brass for the first time in a given rifle, can I neck size the cartridge for the rest of it's life or do I need to full length resize the case every given number of loadings? Thanks in advance for your expertise! ******************************************************* For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction. | ||
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/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I was going to jump right in here but Vapodog pretty much covered everything. If you need more assurances, components like cases, (same weight) bullets and primers are interchangeable if you use the starting loads. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Published load data is not a "Recipe" and should not be treated as such. Load data is merely a guideline. It would be impossible to match load data component for component. Not only would you need the same brass, bullet, powder and primer you would have to have the same lot numbers and the exact same firearm or test barrel as well. This is of course impossible. So, you are on the right track, Start low and work up. Remember, anytime you change a component you should drop down and work back up. | |||
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Loading shotshells and loading for rifles are somewhat different. Shotshell loading is mostly a "cookbook" affair -- you find a load in a recognized loading manual for shotshells and you follow that recipe exactly. For rifles, you find a recommended load in a loading manual, start below the listed max, and work up from there until you find a load that gives you the best results (in terms of accuracy and/or velocity) in your particular rifle. In rifles, sometimes the brand of brass or bullet or primer matters (makes a significant difference) and sometimes not. The brand of bullet is more likely to make a significant difference than different brands of other components. The brand of powder always makes a difference. You need to discover whether different brands of components make a difference for yourself, for your particular rifle/load combination. I agree with all the points made above by Vapodog. "How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?" | |||
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Thanks folks! Steve and Lloyd pointed out a big difference between the shotshell and rifle reloading mindset and I am still cautiously trying to get past that. Thanks to many years of shotshell reloading I have a significant distrust of component swapping without manufacturers assurances of equivelancy. I will try some experimentation with starter loads and let the rifle and brass tell me what is working and what is not! Thanks Again!! ******************************************************* For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction. | |||
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The load that I have found to be best for my Roberts is: Winchester +P cases, CCI #200 primers, the Speer 100 grain SP bullet and IMR-4350. The book starts at 41 grains of powder and goes up to 45 grains. Start at 41 and go up by half grains to 44, then up by .2 increments to 45. I like 5-shot groups. Stop at any sign of pressure. When you find what seems to be the best in your rifle, go up/down by tenths of a grain. I suggest that you buy a bag or two of brand new WW brass, then you'll know what you've got. With my rifle, I can load long, but I doubt that your Ruger will allow for much of that. Start at 2.780", the book length, and go up only after you determine what your rifle can handle. You might find accuracy to be better with more length, almost touching the lands. The magazine in your Ruger might limit length, anyway. But, actually touching the lands will cause a lot more pressure, which you don't want. Maybe Federal is the same and maybe it isn't. I would personally never mix and match brands of cases. | |||
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In my opinion, it's safe to use starting loads even when using military brass. When pushing maximum loads, you should not change components without dropping the load a bit and working it up again. In most cartridges, changing primer brands doesn't make any appreciable difference in pressure but sometimes there is an appreciable accuracy difference. In cartridges the size of the 308 Winchester and larger, I haven't even found that using magnum vs regular primers makes an appreciable difference in pressure.
From a safe pressure point of view, you should be able to treat them as equivalent. For uniformity and accuracy, I prefer brass with the same headstamp and better yet, with the same lot number.
If it's a bolt action rifle, you should be able to neck size indefinitely as long as your loads aren't excessively hot. For lever actions, pumps and semiautos, you need to full length resize every time and sometimes you will need to use a small base die as well. For break open rifles, neck sizing works most of the time but in some instances, you'll need to full length size occasionally. | |||
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I just bought a Ruger Model 77 Mk II in 257 Roberts last October. I didn't have a lot of time to test loads before Deer season, so I went straight to a load of 45.0 grains of H-4350 using a Nosler 100 grain Partition bullet with a Federal 210M primer, in Winchester brass. The load shot a three shot group that measured 9/16" c-t-c at 100 yards, with a 4x scope. No signs of pressure at all. Bullets were seated to have cartridges fit in the magazine and feed properly. Don | |||
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One thing almost no one mentions is starting loads.Do not go below suggested starting loads.This can cause a phenomenon called Detonation.Yes you Naysayers I have witnessed it happen.  | |||
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Concerning primer differences in centerfire rifles: Saeed did a study of that, and I recommend looking at it. His results are at: http://www.accuratereloading.com/primer.html "How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?" | |||
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Good info from all! Thanks! DMB and Chop901, Do the 100gr. loads work well on deer size game at 200 yards or less? I hunt mostly whitetails in Kansas. I might try some Mulies or pronghorn in the next few years. How would the 100gr. loads compare to the 115-117-120gr. bullets for those applications? Generally, here in Kansas if I can't get within about 150 yards in the broken terrain I hunt I don't consider that I have done my part in the hunt. That is not to say that I won't take longer shots but to date I have not needed to or wanted to. ******************************************************* For every action, there is an equal and opposite malfunction. | |||
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I hunt southern Idaho, kind of a mix of sagebrush, Juniper, and small pines. There's a lot of rolling country, mixed with canyons and plateaus. There's always to get reasonably close to a deer to the point that I have never shot at a deer at over 75 yards. I sight the rifle in at 200 yards and have a good idea of the drop at 300 and 400. I have fired at coyotes at over 500 yards with that bullet and occasionally hit them! My last deer got me 192 pounds of meat back from the butcher and it was a spine shot at about 40 feet. One shot with the Speer 100 spitzer. The exit wound was about the same size as the entrance. I see no reason to use a heavier bullet on a deer. That Roberts can kill any deer in Idaho quite easily. A license here for a non-resident, with a deer tag will run you about$400. Add in a plane ticket and renting a vehicle and you can hunt Idaho mule deer for under $1K this fall. The draw hunts close June 5, but there's an open hunt in unit 40 for forkhorns for most of October and you could camp in the hotel in Silver City. Half of my high-school classmates are dead, so don't put off the important stuff. | |||
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