Been wanting to get into reloading for about ten years but for one reason or the other, didn't. First glimpse of reloading was when I bought a Weatherby 300 mag and it would not shoot better than minute of apple. I tried 5-6 different Weatherby factory loads in it with nothing equaling 1". I almost sold that gun till my buddy, an avid reloader, told me to get some dies and we would work up a load. After 20 rounds, we had a 168 grain Amax load that shot consistent 5/8" groups. I was a believer after that.

Sold my home soon after, on the road with work, never had a place for a reloading bench. Working in arctic NW Alaska (Kotzebue) in 2004, I ordered the rockchucker kit, only to find I couldn't get primers or powder sent up there. A $30 restocking fee at Midway and lesson learned.

Now back home in NC, I finally broke down and got myself set up. Got the RCBS Rockchucker kit (more or less) as I got the Chargemaster 1500 combo and will order Forster case trimmers. Additionally, I wanted the original RCBS hand primer, not the new model offered in the kits. Otherwise, I bought all the contents of the deluxe reloading kit. Just today, at my LGS, I picked up a Dillion 550 and some 40 S&W/10 mm dies. Got an 8' workbench from Costco the other day. Will buy the RCBS 50 BMG kit soon, but wanted to develop a skill set before rolling my own with the big boy. Also, I got 500 rounds of Talon ammo to burn while climbing the learning curve with my reloading skills. I am ready to go so to speak.


I said all that to say this....

What do I do now?


I understand the basics (very basics) of reloading. I understand the importance of safety (rtfm), value of case uniformity with rifle rounds, bullet seating depth being important, barrel harmonics, etc.. But there are a few lingering questions I would love to bounce off you guys.



How do you go about "working up a load"?

Meaning, I got my Speer manual and see 30 or so rounds for 300 Weatherby. What mental flow do you have to dictate a bullet to use, bullet weight, powder, etc... So many choices, almost a double edged sword of sorts. Curious if there is some logic to the process or if it is simply trial and error to feed a given gun what it likes.


For bench rest/target rifle rounds, what is your process for separating cartridge cases?

Example, I buy 100 Norma cartridge cases and attempt to sort them. I measure them for OAL, and weigh them to determine likeness in case volume. What criteria do you use when sorting? Wondering just how nit picky to be when it comes to the most expensive part of reloading components. Also, how do you go about deciding what OAL to trim all selected cases to? Logic implies that the shortest length in the batch is where you start and you must pick a number above that. Curious what kind of thoughts one might have when choosing the OAL of the brass.


How important is a crimp die (such as Lee) on hard hitting ammo like the 500 S&W, 45-70, etc..?

I have read varying reports on the utility of such a die. Some say it holds the bullet in place and prevents the gun from jamming. From what I read, when the gun fires, the recoil from the fired round jars the rounds in the cylinder (in case of 500) and can cause them to creep out. Other benefits perhaps, but this is what caught my attention. I have RCBS dies for the above calibers and seems some folks think the Lee crimp is better on certain ammo.


Do I need to trim straight walled cases (500 S&W and 45-70)?

The Forster case trimmer I am looking at will work on everything but my 500 due to the diameter of the cutter. To trim my 500 S&W, I will either need to change many parts on the smaller case trimmer, or buy the larger case trimmer they sell. Seems shouldered rounds like the 300 Weatherby will get most the case trimmer time. Wondering if I should invest the extra $100 or so in the larger case trimmer.


Will case preparation/uniformity, bullet selection, powder charge, or bullet seating depth/concentricity have the biggest effect on accuracy?

A loaded question perhaps. ha ha... But is one of the above more important than the other as it relates to target shooting with rifles, MOA, etc... I have the Weatherby shooting 5/8" groups at 100 yards, wondering how to go to the next step. Also, likely buying a Remington 700 "police" .308 soon for target shooting. As this gun is for all out accuracy (for me) I am wondering what steps in the reloading process will effect accuracy the most. In essence, where should I devote the most time?


Thanks for your patience and any comment.

-Dan

quote:

Originally posted by danattherock:

A loaded question perhaps. ha ha... But is one of the above more important than the other as it relates to target shooting with rifles, MOA, etc... I have the Weatherby shooting 5/8" groups at 100 yards, wondering how to go to the next step. -Dan

What next step??? roger

What next step indeed. You've soon learn that a factory rifle, even with all of the tweeks you'll learn, only has a certain accuracy potential. Despite what you read in cyberspace, a 5/8ths group is fantastic. If you can do it consistantly.
A couple of things that will help you with your load development is practicing a good bench technique and using wind flags.
The wind flags can be as simple as metal or wooden rods with surveying tape tied to them. Placed at 25, 50, and 75 yards.

Wow thats a lot on one pass. I will throw in some and let some of the other guys add in some as well. If this accuracy thing was easy enough to do in one post, everybody woud be doing it .

First as for working up a load. What I strongly recommend is to get another couple of books like say the Nosler and Sierra or Hornady etc. What I try to do (if I dont have past experience with factory loads for that caliber and use) is look to what you expect to use the bullet for. Is it for hunting or more for target or range style shooting. Generally the construction is different. And the weights are as well.

I for one like the "heavier" for caliber bullets in most hunting loads. For example I like the 140 or 150 in 270 Win, and the 250 in the 338 Win Mag and of course 400 in 416 for hunting situations. They generally have good BC for longer range and hold together for a shorter shot where the hyper veloctiy of a light bullet might blow it apart on impact with an animal.

The AMAX you refer to is not a hunting bullet. The AMAX is not designed for penetration and as such is a target or predator type round. The Nosler Partition or AccuBond or Hornadys Interbond would be bulets for larger game animals that the 300 Roy would be used on.

So I then look at load density for those and try to look at powders that fill the case mostly, and get reasonable velocity. And how the accuracy might compare. Then load a batch for a given bullet or 2 and a given powder or 2. Some might be spread by 1 grain of powder or less - or more. Check results with chrono and accuracy.

Second. Bench and target. True target and competition rifles are a LOT LOT different than sporters. They are heavier, they have no magazine, they have no safety (usually) and have a precison chamber, barrel,and trigger. For an actual target built gun you will know the OAL you want to use for a given bullet usually. If you change then you may have to adjust.

Some rifles and shooters shoot better with Norma, some with Lapua, some with Winchester. Brass will likely be weighed and measured carefully. Some guys buy 500 pieces and use 50 or less. Then the others are just practice rounds.

A LOT can be written about this and a lot has been. Its not something you learn in a day or year. For the all out accuracy you seek below it might come with the factory gun and then again maybe not. The best built loads can only get what the action and barrel allow.

There are several ways to measure OAL for the particular chamber. Search and read on them here on AR. But what to seat at - well thats a question. And for most of the factory rifles you refer you will run out of length of the magazine before you reach that 0.010 off the lands seating depth or whatever you want ot start at. In many you cant reach it all due to factory chamber designs for safety aspects.

For the loads from the loading books you will see a case OAL and trim and an overall loaded cartridge OAL. It is good to followw this until you have a reason to change. With different powders and different bullets you will see that they are not all listed the same. The bullet bearing can make a significant pressure rise so heed this for a while.

When a special chamber is cut in a specialty barrel for you you will know the OAL for it and generally have a die cut to match it from that reamer or from that specification.

Crimp die. Saeed tests says it works. Many times you wont need it on a rifle. Revolver like the 500 yes or a tube magazine gun yes. Hunting I just use good neck tension. Most all true competitions are won without crimps. I have the Lees beacause I bought them just to have and they were cheap enough. I rarely use the Lee - others swear by them and say they get great results.

When I do crimp it is almost always with a dedicated Redding crimp die. Better look and better performance for me. Better made as well in my opinion.

Trimmer. Depends on how many you use. But you will likely need to trim to get case length uniformity which will help give OAL uniformity for a given bullet. Maybe not important on the S&W but it sure helps to have the cases the same length or you may not get good seating. Crimping cannot help that. And when you start having to try to fuss and adjust the die round to round, you will get fussy too. And the performance of the boomer may be off too. I dont know how hot those 500s are loaded vs their cylinder length. You may trim twice if they are hot. I would not trim them again for safety.

As for the process, I say for a rifle the bullet chosen is likely highest, then the powder, then the case work, then the primer maybe. But without the case work uniformity you cant have the same degree of confidence in your testing your other components. So when you make changes, and make them all over at once you cant tune your load. Sometimes you get lucky , sometimes you never get it right,or you can just take what you get, or you can try to control what you can.

The Weatherby 5/8 is great. It may or may not hold as the range increases though. Rifles are funny that way. I recently saw a Remm police 308 shoot 1/2 to 3/4 MOA at 100 yards. It shot about 6 inch groups at best at 300 without real wind. Thats where the bullet, barrel, loading etc all start coming into play.

My new 260 Rem with its Berger load is not that impressive at 100. But it shoots plates, targets, and preadators, or deer or other if you choose to really well out at 600 and 800 yards.

You are really looking at a complete system. And on a component by component basis. The ammo can only do so much from a cetain given potential of a rifle. And the rifle can only do so much with a given ammunition. Different than handguns and shotguns, rifles have a life of their own. That is where the magic and the fun is, the experience, the building, the testing, and the shooter and the technique all come together to optimize the result.

All else being about equal, the best BARRELS will make the best shots and make up for some small errors in the rest.

Hope that starts you off good. Good Luck.

Dan,
Welcome to reolading. Allow me to offer a couple of generic comments. First, I get the impression that at this point, you're loading for hunting, not competition. Almost all of my loading is done for hunting. With that goal in mind, I crimp every round. The Lee "factory crimp die" works real well. For my .458 Win Mag though, I still like a good roll crimp. My personal standard for my sporter rifles, with hunting rounds is to get a pretty consistent 1" @ 100 yds. and to stay in 2-3 @ 200 yds or so. 5/8's, 1/2, "one hole" are all great...but IMHO...not generally worth the trouble unless I happen to hit on a "golden combo" that gets those kind of groups without much extra effort and experimentation.
In MY hunting experience...(close to 50 yrs of it, including multiple African and Western US trips) The longest shot I've ever taken was 235 yds.In fact...thinking back over a LOT of shots on game....there were more under 100 yds than over. If I were consistently faced with 3-400 yd shots in the field...I'd possible do things differently, but this is what works for me. If you have the time to put in, tweaking loads and rifles for one-hole groups can be fun and is it's own reward. If that is your goal...I recommend you start talking to Sinclair international. GREAT folks...and they can help you a lot if you enjoy the challenge of wringing every bit of precision out of your chosen gear.

Sinclair International at one time offered a manual/book on reloading that is quite detailed and provides good info for both new reloaders as well as experienced match shooters. Most of your reloading manuals will give good info as well, but the one from Sinclair is more detailed and gives tips on producing quality reloads. I did not read all that was offered above and may have been suggested, but couple tools I would have is the comparator, calipers, device which measures your chamber reading for fired cases and then can resize to be very close to your chamber dimensions. Helps prolong case life by avoiding "working" of the brass.
Again, the book I mentioned deatails lots of steps to help reloaders.
Noted your location in Alaska and several years ago spent more time than I wanted in Dead Horse/Prudhoe Bay area.

Wonderful insights guys, thank you. I have much to think about and really value your thoughts. All my gear is in the kitchen on the floor. Painting the garage in the morning then putting my 8' work bench up. Hoping to have my first reloading bench operational this coming week. Really excited to learn something new. And there seems much is to be learned. Reading your replies provoked dozens of questions. Can't wait to learn more.


-Dan

You do have at least one reloading handbook, don't you?

Speer #14

Likely will add a few more.


-Dan