Anyone use one of these dies?

I'm having to trim my brass after every firing and FLS with my Lee dies. NO LEE FLAMES PLEASE, THEY ARE GOOD DIES.

I'm thinking the chambers are cut loosely on these rifles, which is resulting in the brass flowing.

I cut after resizing, and I feel I'm doing it too ofter. I'm hoping the X-Sizer will reduce this cutting and reduction of brass.

All reports are that the x sizer works as advertised....BUT...do you have those lee dies set up so they are working right??
Instructions usually say to thread them down to the shellholder but this can oversize the brass. Have you attempted to set them so they barely set the shoulder back which often means they are up off the shellholder a tad??

quote:

Originally posted by june6th1944:
Anyone use one of these dies?

I'm having to trim my brass after every firing and FLS with my Lee dies. NO LEE FLAMES PLEASE, THEY ARE GOOD DIES.

I'm thinking the chambers are cut loosely on these rifles, which is resulting in the brass flowing.

I cut after resizing, and I feel I'm doing it too ofter. I'm hoping the X-Sizer will reduce this cutting and reduction of brass.

That is common with all regular FL 30-30 dies, not just the Lee's. I now use the RCBS X-Die for loading for both my M94s and my TC Contender carbine barrel. I no longer trim because they work.

One suggestion though; the directions will say to size all your cases and then trim to some "manual" length. Since all 30-30 camber necks are on the long size I suggest you take 3 of the longer cases (not yet sized), back out the "mandrell assembly" so the case mouth does not bump into the shoulder on it. Then lube and FL size the 3 cases setting back the shoulder just enough that they chamber in your M94. You should not have to trim for them to chamber.

When the die is adjusted so the 3 cases chamber easily lock the lock ring. Then relube (if necessary) the longest case and run it back up into the die. Then screw the mandrel assembly down so the mandrel stop is down tightly on the case mouth. Lock the mandrell lock ring. The other cases can now be FL sized. They will legthen to the length of the longest one and then stop lengthening (may take one or two firings/sizings). After that the cases will not lengthen any more and you will not be trimming them again.

Larry Gibson

Thanks.

These are the types of comments I was hoping for.

I might try kraky's suggestion on some more brass to see what happens. I was going to email Lee to get their comments too. I can't be the only one over the years w/ this issue.

I'm going to start loading Hornady FlexTips and using my 94 more often, so this brass issue needs to be addressed.

So, if you use the X-Sizer, are you running the brass through the FLS and the X-Sizer (given the X-sizer is only for neck-sizing)? What if you remove the mandrel on the FLS, so you only size the body, then use the X-sizer, I hope that doesn't sound dumb.

Thanks again.

june6th1944:

"I might try kraky's suggestion on some more brass to see what happens. I was going to email Lee to get their comments too. I can't be the only one over the years w/ this issue."

Just be aware that the cases will still lengthen. Note the expansion at the expansion ring on the fired cases. When sized that expansion is pushed back in and the brass flows forward. This is what pushes the shoulder forward. Then when the shoulder is set back the neck lengthens. The X-Die prevents the brass from flowing forward.

"I'm going to start loading Hornady FlexTips and using my 94 more often, so this brass issue needs to be addressed."

Excellent bullets BTW. I've recently test some factory loads. They gave 50 fps more velocity out of my 24" M94 than advertised. Seven shots went into 1.7" at 100 yards. I've some of the bullets order tand will be interested in how close I can come to the Hornady factory loads while staying within pressure (I have an Oehler M43 to measure pressure).

"So, if you use the X-Sizer, are you running the brass through the FLS and the X-Sizer (given the X-sizer is only for neck-sizing)? What if you remove the mandrel on the FLS, so you only size the body, then use the X-sizer, I hope that doesn't sound dumb."

The RCBS X-Die is a full length sizer, not a neck sizer. You only need to size the case in that die.

Larry Gibson

Cabela's description is confusing/wrong.

There is a video on the RCBS site about these dies and it states it's an FLS die, however Cabela's has this description:

RCBS X-Sizer Die
Item:XJ-211088
$36.99

Please use the chart below to find your product and add it to cart

Item notes
This is a case length limiting, neck-sizing die only; it is used as an alternative to the full-length case sizing die included in a caliber-specific two-die set. No bullet seating die is included.

They don't sell the .30-30 X-Sizer, so I'll have to buy it elsewhere anyway.

I just read an article in Shooting Times and it discusses the X-Sizer and states that they do work as intended.

Thanks again.

june6th1944

Wouldn't be the first time Cabela's or other catalogues have fouled up a product description. I think I got mine from Midway some time back.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
Hey june6th1944, When a person uses the X-Die, where does the Brass go that it is Resizing?

I've never gotten a good answer about that. It has to go somewhere.

Hot Core

Perhaps I can answer your question;

As you surmise, the brass hass to go somewhere. However the brass rate of flow is slowed to a dramatic degree. My extensive tests with .308W/7.62 which have included sectioning cases to determine the answer to that question. Those sectioned cases show the brass does continue to flow forward but a much retarded rate. The case still thins in the web area but it is very little compared to thinning when regular FL dies are used. With the use of the X-Die the case thickens very slightly in the upper body/shoulder area. This is because the mandrell stop holds the case back from lengthening. That's where the brass goes.

In an extensive test (results are available and have been posted on this forum and others before) with 7.62 LC cases fired in a M1A with military barrel showed cases average 20+ firings before incipient case head seperation becomes a problem. This is a 3-4 times increase in in case life when regular dies are used.

I also took one 30-30 case and fired it 32 times with a full power load after FL resizing it in the X-Die. It showed no signs of incipient case head seperation but the case mouth finally split. The X-Dies have no control over that. I should have annealed the case necks along the way. However, 32 firings with a FL sized case ain't too shabby!

I also use X-Dies in .223, 7.62x39, '06 and 8x57 with the same excellent results.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by june6th1944:
... I'm hoping the X-Sizer will reduce this cutting and reduction of brass.

Hey june6th1944, When a person uses the X-Die, where does the Brass go that it is Resizing?

I've never gotten a good answer about that. It has to go somewhere.

I like the old 30-30 enough that I still have a set of regular RCBS FL Dies for it. Never had a problem with them, but maybe I didn't load them enough times to see a problem.

Best of luck to you.

I have a bad answer.
It hits the dead end and stops.

I thought of buying some, but over the last month, I have come to the conclusion [after lots of testing] that if I really hate to trim in some huge varmint shooting quantity, use Lee Collet dies.

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This actually makes trimming fun...or as fun as it can be....and don't make fun of my messy table either

Wait a minute...I thought this thread was about X-Sizer dies...

There is no picture of a die in that photo, but there are more than 20 cans of oils/solvents, including a can of WD-40.

So does the Lee 3-jaw chuck work all of the time? I ordered the Sinclair Universal system, but you can't use Lee cutters with it (wish they had told me that on the phone). I returned it, and I'm going to get the Lee 3-jaw chuck to put in my drill as well.

You can goof up a bit if you don't give it a good twist in that the little levers must pop out and go into the extractor groove. If you "short twist" it the levers pop out too soon and stop at the rim. It's just a matter of getting used to it.
I use a little flitz to clean the outside of the cases and a bore brush to clean out the neck and hardly ever use my vibratory cleaner any more. PLUS I hardly ever use my expensive rcbs elec lathe trim pro anymore. This goofy little chuck and the lee trimmer is sweet!

One last trick...if you've done business with sinclair is to get their inserts to check out how long your throat actually is and how often you REALLY NEED to trim in the first place. I have a quite of few of them for diff calibers. I have several rifles that from new on are about .020 longer than saami trim specs and NEVER NEED TRIMMING for the life of the brass! Now thats really the way to save time trimming!
(I've never seen a rifle that is not at least .006" longer than saami spec)