I have two WSMs one a 270wsm in a M70 CRF and the other a 300wsm in a M-70 CRF-PF (Coyote). I normally only partial length resize my cases on all of my rifles. But on these two only, after two or so reloadings the bolt gets real hard to close. After inspecting the brass (before firing) I noticed a shiney ring around the primer area on the cartridge face left there from the bolt. After firing the bolt opens just fine, nice and easy. Since then, I full length resize the cases. I have some 300wsm cases that have been reloaded at least ten times. I check the inside of the case for case seperation rings with a bent paper clip as well as a visual check. I have not had one instance of case seperation which is common to continuous full length resizing. The cases have to be trimmed every fourth or fifth reloading. Looking back, I'm sure that some of those cases have reloaded fifteen or more times, I've lost count.
Does anyone have any thoughts on what is happening or had the same experience? I have a good idea on it but would like to see if my thoughts are the same as someone elses.

Hey Rae59, You mention P-FLRing, which is what I do as well, but on other Cases.

It sounds like you simply need to screw the FL Die into the Press just a tiny bit more. This can be easily "overdone" because you are real close to the proper setting.

I'd recommend you wrap a piece of Masking Tape(Woods will love this if you use Duct Tape) around the FL Die just above the Lock Ring and a second piece around part of the Lock Ring. Place a Witness Mark on both pieces of Tape so they align with each other. Make sure the Tape does not extend below the Lock Ring.

Loosen the Lock Nut Jam Screw and turn the FL Die "Into" the Lock Nut just a tiny bit and then reset the Jam Screw. The Witness Marks should be barely off-set.

Screw the Die into the Press, Lube a Case, Squash it, wipe the Lube off and try it in your rifle. If it is still hard to close the Bolt on, repeat all the above.

Eventually you will reach a point where the Bolt closes with a Slight bit of Resistance and you can remove the Tape.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks for your post HotCore. But I have already played with screwing the die in, just minus the tape. I have literally turned the die in at a rate of 1/16th of a turn then take the case and try it in my rifles until the bolt easily closes. I end up with the RCBS die/shell holder being up tight to one another, in other words full length resizing. This particular problem only exist with these two WSMs. I have four .270's, a'06, two 22-250's, that I exclusively only do the part. resize thing on. My larger calibers and semi-autos I naturally would do the full-length resize. No this is something all together different with the WSMs.
I suspect it has something to do with the width of the case and thickness of the head in relation to the width. Since there is more powder going off at once than even belted magnums, it may be there is not enough brass thickness in the Winchester cartridge face.
Anyway I was just wondering if someone else had this same experience?

Rae,
I have a bunch of empties ready for a friend to reload and I have found that ring exactly as you mentioned. I am shooting a 270 WSM in M70 and 300 WSM in a Tikka T-3. I was hoping it wasn't just my cases and someones else had seen these marks.
Thanks for the help.

Hey Rae59, If you are using a different manufacturer's Shell Holder than the folks that made your Dies, that could be it.

You could try placing a 0.002"-0.005" Blade style Gauge under the Case Head to Shim it up once it is in the Shell Holder - but - that will result in the Gauge being "Hole Punched" by the Decapping Pin.

You might try a layer or two of tape on the Case Head as a Shim, or perhaps a couple of strips of Credit Card stock if it is thin enough.

If either of those work, then you could Grind a a few thousandths off the top of the $5 Shell Holder and you are good to go.
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Are you familiar with the term "Cam-Over" associated with the Linkage of your Press? What kind of Press are you using?
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The "Ring" you are both noticing is normal on all Cartridges, whether they are factory chambers, or custom chambers. It is called the Pressure Ring and is where the PRE portion of CHE & PRE is measured. If you have a Speer Manual, I can guide you to the page where it is discussed.

I have had tight bolts with my .270 WSM I now FLRS for it.

I`m relaying hearsay, but I`ve been told the WSM brass is heavier then cases used for 30-06, 223, ect.
They have less spring back when fired. This also works as them being more resistant to normal resizing. The cases need FL sizeing more often then not.

Readjusting the die as the cases get older seems to be a common story with the wsm's. There are alot of people that have had to grind shell holders to get enough travel up into the die as the situation progresses.
There are some die shims out there called skips shims that you may find on the internet or find them at Sinclairs that can work pretty good in situations like this. Set your die for a good shoulder push then shim it up as needed for just a .002" bump. Keep removing shims as you need it.

quote:

I noticed a shiney ring around the primer area on the cartridge face left there from the bolt.

A shiny ring can come from the ejector. Its a sign of high pressure. The brass flows into the hole. Your web area of the brass is not sized by standard dies. If the web expands from to hot a loading, you will needed extra pressure to get the round to chamber. Back off you power charge a little. Does the shiny mark look like this? The light load is on the right, going to the hotest load on the left. This photos shows the web areas of brass.

I've had the same experience with my Tikka T3 270WSM, hard bolt close on reloaded ammos and apparently no way to cure the mishap; I had to grind 0.03 mm off the top of the shell holder to solve. It's a fairly frequent problem with WSM calibers.

Hey HotCore and 243, I'll try to reply to both of you in this one post. I always use the same brand shell holder with the same brand of dies in my RCBS Jr. press. 243Winxb, the shiny ring I am referring to is all the way around the primer pocket and comes from the bolt face turning on the case head/face. It appears that after two reloadings the case face becomes domed a few thousandths of an inch. Since I have been full-length resizing, the problem has gone away completely, so far As I stated on another post, I always use the same 6 to 9 cases when working up a load or sighting in a rifle. This way I can detect anything screwy real quick, ie. pressure or resizing problems just like I did. I have currently reloaded these 6 cases twelve times. I,like any relaoder, have pushed the velocities/powder amounts and am fully aware of what ejector marks look like. I now shoot almost exclusivly Winchester rifles or "controlled round feed" rifles so I won't be seeing those ejector marks quite like that anymore except on my Tikka T3 or my one Rem.700 which I do not care for anymore. Thanks for the replies gentlemen, I hope this helps as it did for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
... I always use the same brand shell holder with the same brand of dies in my RCBS Jr. press.

Hey Rae59, That is good because it helps eliminate one additional problem source.

The "Cam Over" I was asking about occurs when the Press handle is lowered and the linkage goes slightly beyond the point where it raises the Ram to the uppermost limit. On all Presses, there is a slight amount of looseness(aka slop) in the Linkages, or otherwise all the linkage connection points would be locked-up and not rotate.

The "looseness" often requires the Resizing Die to be screwed in just a bit more than "against the Shell Holder". You lower the Ram, screw the Resizing Die in just a bit more and secure the Lock Ring, 1/8-1/4 turn generally is enough. This compensates for the "linkage looseness" and you typically get a complete Full Length Resize.

Some of the small presses (like the cast metal Lee Press) can be damaged by doing this. So, the normal way around the issue is to Grind Off a couple of thousandths from the top of the Shell Holder, which eliminates the unnecessary stress. And you can see if that would fix the issue by placing a thin Shim under the Case Head while it is in the Shell Holder like I described before.
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The M70 CRF and Mouser designs have an Ejector "Slot" which can create a Burnish Mark similar to the Ejector Hole on a M700 - if the Pressure is way too high. The Case Head flows into the Ejector Slot and is burnished as the Bolt turns. So, you can still get Ejector Marks on the Case Head regardless of the rifle design.
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You mentioned reloading the same cases 12 times. That is excellent if the Primer Pockets are still snug. If you have not done so, you might want to consider Annealing the Case Mouth on each of them so you do not loose them due to Neck Splits.

Annealing a small batch is an excellent way to
learn the process. Many people make it way more complex than necessary. It is simple to do and extends the case life.

Best of luck to you.

Howdy Rae59,

I had exactly the same problem with my 7WSM on mod. 70 Classic. Here is how I fixed the problem. I could not make the head to datum line measurement short enough using either RCBS or Forster resizing dies. I ground the bottom of the RCBS die about .005 (on the lathe) and got satisfactory results except for concentricity. I really got much straighter ammo with the Forster die. I purchased a Redding body bump die for my WSM. Now, I partially size using the Forster die, bump the shoulder back to .003" short of the once fired datum line measurement, check for concentricity, and anneal after every fifth loading. My ammo comes out with a "false" shoulder just in front of the real shoulder. This seems to make the cartridge align in the chamber's neck closer and easier. I can't complain, the results are groups under 1/2" anytime the wind doesn't blow...WITH the factory barrel....at 150 yards, not the normal 100. By the way, I measure the head to datum line with the Stoney Point head space tool. Smartest investment I ever made.

Hope this helps you out, and good shooting.

Coach

I had this same problem a few years ago and talked to a bunch of reloaders that I trust. Through my research I have found that you must full length size 300 and 270 WSM's. Once I did that I have had zero issues. I also bump the shoulder back just a little.

My 270 WSM Win mod 70 leaves a ring around the bottom of the case also. At first I thought it was pressure signs but when I noticed on brass two grains below book minimum I found it was just extractor marks. I do not get any other signs on the case until I start getting near max, then I back off.

I use Redding dies and they seem to work a little better with sizing then the RCBS dies I did have.

I also found that with two WSM's and one SAUM I reload for that I must lube the inside of the necks and use just a minimal amount of good sizing lube.

Everytime I have partial or neck sized these cases I get bolt closing problems or won't go in the chamber at all. It must have something to do with the thickness of the brass.

ANother tip, at least in my guns, Remington brass holds up much better than Winchester brass. I have not tried Norma brass. I have had issues with Winchester brass primer pockets getting loose and necks cracking after only after a few reloads.

quote:

Originally posted by 243winxb:

quote:

I noticed a shiney ring around the primer area on the cartridge face left there from the bolt.

A shiny ring can come from the ejector. Its a sign of high pressure. The brass flows into the hole.

This is true no matter how much below the cook book maximum you are reloading. It can be ,however, and has been for me in the past, that it happens also with soft brass.

My suggestion would be to get rid of those short fatties and get a 7 X 57 and a 6.5 X 55. roger

I had problems with a sticky bolt and neck sizing my 300wsm. I started to pfl size them - I do it every time now using the Redding compatition shell holders for the wsm cartidge. I have a hunch that the cases were getting a little work hardened after a few firings and the brass was not flexing back those couple thousandths after being fired. I just culled some win brass the other day.. some of them may have had 10 or more loadings... poor management on my part and lost track. But they just started to get cracked necks. I intend to partial full length size my brass for all my hunting rifles. Just keeps everything consistent from batch to batch.

I had a problem with my 300 Win Mag closing the bolt on some cases. I bought a RCBS small base die, problem solved. The other problem I have had closing the bolt was using new Nickle Remington brass. I found out I was loading the bullet out a little to far and the Nickle brass would not let the bullet push back into the case like the brass cases would making the bolt hard to close.

Earl, I really don't care how many times my brass is reloaded. I watch pretty close for any signs of case failure ie. splits, case seperation rings and so-on. I am somewhat of an experimenter. I prefer Winchester brass because it is somewhat harder ,as you noticed, it will not "flow" like softer brass will. As far as the loose primer pockets go, I am currently reloading some 270 Winchester, not WSM, cases (the usual same 6 to 9) with primer pockets that are loose. I can hand push primers in about a third of the way. Not a single one has blown gases out of the pocket hole yet. Maybe the next time but not yet. I believe it is because of the harder brass still being tight the last half to two/thirds of the way in the primer pocket. Most reloaders would have chunked the case already. But as I have stated they still work fine, and these have been loaded around fifteen times or more. No splits yet either. This also has to do with how close the chamber is to SAAMI specs. The more you work the brass back and forth the more spits/cracks you will have. But you probably already know this.