Hi guys,

This is my first post, so let me introduce myself.
My name is Kevin, 30 something, married and one 5 year old son. I come from Scotland and live on a small farm where I’m lucky enough to have over 3,000 acres to shoot on my doorstep I also have my own 100 and 200 yard ranges less than 300 yards from the house. I’ve been shooting for over 20 years and only decided to take the plunge into reloading yesterday! …this leads nicely into my first question……

I’m reloading for .243. Yesterday I bought a Lee Anniversary kit, Lee Deluxe die set, H-414 powder, Federal 215 magnum primers, Nosler 95 grain BT heads and a whole heap of other stuff. Went home last night, set it all up and loaded my first 5 rounds.

I took the OAL measurement to set the seating die from a factory Winchester Supreme round. I believe the Noslers are the same basic bullet (but without the black gunk). I looked up the reloading charts and decided to go with 28 grains of H-141.

Anyway, ended up making these and felt like a proud dad! Didn’t want to fire them!
Here is my first 5 shot 100 yard group with hand-loaded ammo
Ignore the lowest hole – I definitely pulled that one! 2 through the same hole.
I make the group 0.58†ctc.
Considering this was shot off a bipod without a rear rest and a “guess†seating depth / powder charge, I’m quite happy

I am getting to the questions….
Seating depth – I was thinking of cutting a case neck lengthways (so a bullet can move back and forth), chambering the cartridge and using this measurement as my OAL to touch the lands. I’d then back off 10 thou or so. Would this work / be accurate?

Powder charge – can I just up the charge .5 grain at a time until I see pressure signs? I’m not 100% sure what all the pressure signs are. I’ve heard of flattened primers, but that’s about it. I really don’t want to blow myself up!

Fine tuning – do I attempt to get the best seating depth first then best powder charge or visa versa?

I’m sorry for posting stupid newbie questions like this – I’m sure you have heard them all before many, many times. I’ve tried a lot of searches on here and find myself becoming more confused. I’d just like a little straightforward advice to get me going safely.

Thanks,
Kev.

First of all, when you measure a group, you measure ALL holes, regardless of where and why they exist.

About working up a load...I have yet to find anyone who does it exactly the same. But here's what I do...

Find the proper OAL of the cartridge by first seating bullets so that 3 dummy cartridges will fit in the magazine. Then cycle them through the action. If they feed properly, do not bind and there is no resistance in closing the action, that is your OAL.

If they do not feed or if there is binding, then seat the bullets another 0.010" deeper. Keep doing this until the operation of the firearm is flawless.

I would then load from 36.0 grains to 42.0 grains in 0.3 grain steps.

Reload the best 10 of those 20.

Reload the best 5 of those 10.

Reload the best 3 of those 5.

Reload the best 2 of those 3.

Reload the best, and consider it to be my load.

Then I would load the same loads, only substituting primers with other makes of the same size. Selecting that best group as my load.

Then load a batch with the bullet 0.010" deeper and 0.020" deeper and 0.030" deeper. See if your groups are getting tighter. If they aren't your work-up is over at the original OAL. If each successive group gets smaller, then continue to seat the bullets deeper until the group opens.

"I am getting to the questions….
Seating depth – I was thinking of cutting a case neck lengthways (so a bullet can move back and forth), chambering the cartridge and using this measurement as my OAL to touch the lands. I’d then back off 10 thou or so. Would this work / be accurate?"

I would not cut the case. I normally load a dummy round with the bullet just far enough into the case to keep it from falling out. Color the bullet with a black permanent marker. Chamber the round. You should feel some resistance when closing the bolt. This is because the bullet is touching the rifling and being forced into the case. Eject the round and look at the bullet. The black should be scrathced off the bullet where it touched the lands. Adjust the seating die to make seat the bullet slightly deeper. Continue this process until the bullet no longer shows any signe of touching the rifling. Record that length as the maximum in your rifle. I usaullay load my bullets .010 less than the max length. If you are going to use the rifle at the range only and dont mind using it as a single shot you're fine. Otherwise you need to check to see if the bullets will fit into the magazine as Ricadello suggested.

"Powder charge – can I just up the charge .5 grain at a time until I see pressure signs? I’m not 100% sure what all the pressure signs are. I’ve heard of flattened primers, but that’s about it. I really don’t want to blow myself up!"

I think reading primers is a very incosistent way to judge pressure. Sometimes you get high pressure with no change in the way the primer looks. It's just one sign. If the bolt handle is hard to open or you see bright rings on the case you're way too high. I'd stick with the max data from the reloading manual until you gain some experience. The Speer manuual has a good chapter on looking for high pressure signs.

Ricciardelli is a pretty sharp cookie....I'd heed his recommndations.

I do things differently but won't claim they're better.
1. using a fired case slightly dent the case neck until a bullet will fit the neck firmly but not so that it can't be seated by hand. Use that to chamber in the rifle and the lands will force the bullet to the longest OAL that can be used with that bullet in that gun.

You might even see lands marks on the bullet. The bullet might also stay in the lands so use a cleaning rod to knock it out if it does.

You can also force a bullet only into the chamber with a wooden dowel and measure to the bullet tip with another wooden dowel from the muzzle to gauge the seating length.

Often times the lands are so far foreward that seating to the lands is merely a pipe dream and guess what?.....you'll still get good accuracy...

If you can, establish an OAL with the bullet seated roughly .03 from the lands and don't mess with it after that.

Work the load up .5 grains at a time and I assure you the pressure signs will glare at you. You won't have to be a rocket scientist to notice sticky extraction and other marks on the brass. But use the same cases to work up the load so you can tell if the primer pockets are expanding.....if they are.....you've gone too far and maybe a lot too far.

I assume you're using a bolt action rifle that is stronger than the brass case!!!!!

As I understand you're shooting a .243 winchester using H-414 powder and 95 grain bullets.....and started loading with 28 grains?.....wow...that's starting low!!!

I'd have started at about 35 grains and worked to roughly 41 if I could.....maybe more or less.

Shoot five shot groups looking for group size and pressure signs.

You should get to 41 before things start looking warm. If you have a chronograph you might see 3,100 before things look warm as well. But watch those primer pockets. If the next reloading easily seats or seats the primers with no force we need to stop. You will likely stop before that as well.....

Once you've seated the bullet the way you like it then work up the powder.....see what happens.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
As I understand you're shooting a .243 winchester using H-414 powder and 95 grain bullets.....and started loading with 28 grains?.....wow...that's starting low!!!

Sorry - I meant 38 grains, not 28

Thanks for all the replies.

quote:

Powder charge – can I just up the charge .5 grain at a time until I see pressure signs? I’m not 100% sure what all the pressure signs are. I’ve heard of flattened primers, but that’s about it. I really don’t want to blow myself up!

Welcome Kevin! You chose the best bulletin board for good information, and a wide variety of opinions!!

Yes, you can work up 0.5 grain at a time. I believe 38 grains of H414 is pretty mild in the .243 with that bullet. H414 has a burning rate very comparable to IMR 4350 and WW760, so it is a medium-slow burner. It is POSSIBLE to get into trouble when using too-light a load of a slow powder in small caliber, large capacity cases. There are even some powders for which the maker cautions "DO NOT REDUCE THIS POWDER CHARGE". So with H414 or slower powders, I suggest you start working up a load from your reloading manual's recommended STARTING H414 load. (My Hodgdon manual shows 39.5 grains as a starting load with a 100-grain bullet, so 38 is probably OK with the 95 grainer. Looks like your group might tighten up with a slight increase in powder. Might eliminate that flyer...)

Pressure signs: Flattened/cratered primers are often caused by something other than excessive pressures. Hence, I do not consider flattened primers to be at all a reliable indication of too much pressure. When working up a load, begin with the suggesterd starting load, work up 0.5 of a grain at a time, and quit when you achieve the desired accuracy level at an acceptable velocity for your needs. It of course helps to have a chropnograph for this, but the figures printed for velocities in some manuals are relatively reliable. For example, I have found those in the Lyman manual to be pretty close to what I get for tested velocities from my various rifles.

When is a load too hot? If you cannot reload a case at least five times due to primer pocket expansion, I'd drop back a couple of grains. I like to get at least 10 loadings from a batch of new brass. If you are getting difficult bolt opening, bright marks on the case head from the bolt face, or your primer pockets stretch to where they won't hold a new primer after one or two shots, you need to reduce that powder charge by at least 5% if not more.

Good luck (Your ammo looks good!)