ok new to reloading so here is my question whith all they makers and different styles of bullits how do you decide which bullit?

a couple of examples i have a 308 norma that came with some nosler 200 gr partitions i plan to load for bear hunt because i already have them but i'm finishing a 7mm stw build will use on deer and caribou then the ole 308 win that i plan on target and trying to further develope my marksmanship skills with

I know there is no magical guide to say this is best bullit for job but maybe you guys can help me understand some guidelines as my experience has almost soley been factory ammo

I prefer a heavy for calibre bullet. I believe if your bullet has a muzzle velocity over 3000fps, you need a heavier bullet.
Of your examples, I would use a 200gr for the Norma, a 160 for the 7mm and a 165 for the .308. I would use a Partition or Grand Slam for the Norma and 7mm and probably a Core Lokt for the .308. There are a lot of good hunting bullets out there, just don't get caught up in the magic bullet hype. You've still got to stick 'em in the right place.

The 3 most accurate bullets I have found that almost always wind up being my choice are Nosler part. Barnes TSX, and the Nosler Accubond. 3 great deer or caribou bullets are the Nosler BT the Rem. core-lokt and the Hornady SST they also serve as practice.

I was just shooting yesterday with my 338 and my two normal bullets are the 210 and 250 gr Nosler part. to costly to fire more then a few but the Hornady 225 gr SST will shoot tight groups and damn near same place as both the Noslers in my gun.

GOOD LUCK

WHen I decide on a bullet I look at what I expect from it. I generally like to shoot longer ranges when They present themselves so I look for the higher BC in known good shooting bullets. That narrows the field to the heaviest boat tail bullet that the rifle will handle. You also have to look at the twist rate to make sure the bullet will stableize.

Next trick is to match the game and gun velocity to make sure the bullet will do the job. If you are hunting dangerous tough game, then stick with the partition or similar bullet, but black bear are taken with the good old 3030 so anything your norma will throw at it over 150 grain will do the trick save the matchking.

THere are so many bullets out there, ya just gotta make a dicision to try out a couple, otherwise you will be wearing out the barrel before you make up your mind.

"...how do you decide which bullit?"

Experience. For game shooting, all makers produce quality bullets so you can't really go wrong but some do preform better than others in specific instances. Only YOU can determine which is best for YOU, and that will require that you experiment a bit. That will give you the experience to make your eventual choice but going to a heavy for caliber bullet will never do you wrong.

thanx for replies these were only examples all 3 exist but i have plenty of calibers it sounds like i need to learn about the velocity to game and bullit
there are so many choices out there like the matchking's, tsx partitions accubond grandslams.This is the part that is a little confusing to me i know this is probally an enoying question being i probally should already now but that is why i asked on forum being the experience levels here and the willingness to help people out

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
I prefer a heavy for calibre bullet. I believe if your bullet has a muzzle velocity over 3000fps, you need a heavier bullet.
Of your examples, I would use a 200gr for the Norma, a 160 for the 7mm and a 165 for the .308. I would use a Partition or Grand Slam for the Norma and 7mm and probably a Core Lokt for the .308. There are a lot of good hunting bullets out there, just don't get caught up in the magic bullet hype. You've still got to stick 'em in the right place.

This is the most rediculous example of the heavy bullet mafia's manifesto I've seen here on Accurate.

Muzzle velocity allergy? if you are faster than 3000fps slow it down with a heavier bullet?

PLEASE just STOP!

To the original question, what bullet do you choose?

That depends. bullets like the nosler partition perform well across a wide range of IMPACT speeds. (muzzle velocity itself isn't a bad thing)
If you want to go long distance High BC and velocity help getting you there.

And if you read back through five or six years of postings the same guys who will tell you that conventionally designed "Cup & Core bullets" are plenty good enough are the same guys saying heavier (and slow) is the way to go.
If you are going heavy and slow a Corelokt or a power point is good enough.

But I don't see people putting a trailer hitch on their Ferrari and using it to tow a motorhome...

Yet, you always see these guys saying this about the magnum cartridges... who knows mabey they have magnum envy?

A 200 grain Nosler partition isn't a bad choice but frankly there really isn't anything that can be done with a 30cal magnum that you can do with a 180gr partition that can be done better with a 200gr partition.

they'll say "Oh, the 200's penetrate better"
I'll ask penetrate what? Bridger peak?


Though a 180gr accubond will probably perform just as well as the partition does for a bit less expense and a better Ballistic coefficient.

Expense of premium bullets?

Premium bullets are the cheapest part of your hunting trip.

the $30 on a box of partitions bought to load the ammo I'll actually CARRY on the trip, a plastic 50 round ammo case, though actually in the field I'll carry a full load in the rifle (four down, one up) and usually no more than 10rounds in my pockets. and FWIW the most ammo Ive ever expended in a day's "big game" hunting on game was two rounds.

the coffee in my thermos filled at breakfast actually cost me more...

No, I don't believe in "wonder bullets" either,
but what exactly is a "wonder bullet?
is that a derisive term for "premium" bullets?
Is a premium bullet anything that costs more than the cheapest cup & Core bullet you can find?

partitions? They just plain work and anyone who tells you different needs to have their keyboard confiscated.

Partitions just plain work.

Barnes Bullets? I think the jury is still out on them. They are fun to shoot in the rifles that like them, but when it comes time to choose my hunting ammo I always grab a box of something loaded with Noslers, either Partition or accubond.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
I prefer a heavy for calibre bullet. I believe if your bullet has a muzzle velocity over 3000fps, you need a heavier bullet.
Of your examples, I would use a 200gr for the Norma, a 160 for the 7mm and a 165 for the .308. I would use a Partition or Grand Slam for the Norma and 7mm and probably a Core Lokt for the .308. There are a lot of good hunting bullets out there, just don't get caught up in the magic bullet hype. You've still got to stick 'em in the right place.

TBear, The above is an excellent, well thought out post that addresses what you are Hunting exactly.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

All these great bullets we have today are a blessing and a curse. My grandfather killed everything from elk on down with 180 Corelokts in his 06. But back then the only main choice for a premium bullet other than factory stuff was the partition. Today, we have bullets for virtually everything.

The really frustrating part will be when your preferred load just won't work in that gun. E.g. your 308 Norma shoots 3" groups with 200 gr partitions but puts 150 ballistic tips into a 1/2". Then you'll scream and cry and wind up with a bunch of mostly full boxes of bullets on your reloading bench.

LWD

It depends on the what you intend to target. Paper, push some Berger bullets to the lands and tune the load (Berger bullets are the only match type that I would use on thin skinned medium game) Varmint, use the "varmint grenade" at the appropriate caliber and watchem vap!
It sounds to me that you are hunting medium/big game for that you might concidre the Swift "A-Frame" the front core is stuck to the jacket for better weight retention than the Nosler "Partitions". If you plan short range 10-200yrsd heavy and slow but if you will shoot in a bean field long range use a lighter slug at faster velocity but be sure to have a rifle and rest that ensures accuracy.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
I prefer a heavy for calibre bullet. I believe if your bullet has a muzzle velocity over 3000fps, you need a heavier bullet.
Of your examples, I would use a 200gr for the Norma, a 160 for the 7mm and a 165 for the .308. I would use a Partition or Grand Slam for the Norma and 7mm and probably a Core Lokt for the .308. There are a lot of good hunting bullets out there, just don't get caught up in the magic bullet hype. You've still got to stick 'em in the right place.

Interesting post with a lot of meritt!!!!! One could do much worse than follow this advice.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
I prefer a heavy for calibre bullet. I believe if your bullet has a muzzle velocity over 3000fps, you need a heavier bullet.
Of your examples, I would use a 200gr for the Norma, a 160 for the 7mm and a 165 for the .308. I would use a Partition or Grand Slam for the Norma and 7mm and probably a Core Lokt for the .308. There are a lot of good hunting bullets out there, just don't get caught up in the magic bullet hype. You've still got to stick 'em in the right place.

Interesting post with a lot of meritt!!!!! One could do much worse than follow this advice.

Hey VD, If the Pontifficator says it's rediculous It must be so!?!? Right? roger

Oh, I get it when you say it Roger it's "wisdom"
and when I say it it's "pontificating"

Blow it out your butt roger.

Tell me what exactly is wrong with faster than 3000fps?


Are you worried about a powder shortage so you want to institute a bullet speed limit?

Tell me, I REALLY want to know what you think.

The fact that you can't discuss it logically but instead resort to name calling (though admittedly "pontificator" is relatively mild) either means you don't know or you know and know that you are full of... beans.

Come on discuss it point by point and show me where my logic is flawed.... I double dog dare you!


Now back to the original post, where do you expect the bullet to go and what do you expect the bullet to do when it gets there...

From that it pretty much sorts itself out.

If you want to shoot bullets fast for a a flatter trajectory don't let others spit on your desires.
Just understand that too has some drawbacks...
Like lightly constructed bullets don't like running into things close to the muzzle...

Barnes bullets need to be driven as fast as practical for reliable expansion.

OTOH loading up Speer african grand slams and going antelope hunting is equally misguided...
because there simply isn't enough target to make that bullet expand.

Heavier bullets like the 200's and 220's in 30 caliber tend to be "over constructed" for deer hunting, yes even the ballistic tips.

And most manufacturers will tell you that their 180's are not intended for deer either.

So if you were going after Whitetails or mulies with that 308Norma the bullets aren't going to do what you want them to if you use heavy bullets to "slow them down" to under 3000fps.

I leave it to you to decide if my previous remark of "rediculous" was incorrect.

The facts do not always speak for themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
...If the Pontifficator says it's rediculous It must be so!?!? Right? roger

Would you be interested in me signing you up for my "Amiable Diplomacy Classes"?

Folks, I have lurked on this sight for some months and must admit that some of yall like to slug it out, so I'mm commin in!! To those who come to hate me I respect (most of) you and may my posts be learned and balanced for maximum effect! Saeed Thanks for a robust board!
CHARGE!

A fact of life is that balance is king. A speed limit belongs on bullets not cartridges.
If you desire to shoot 180grns Accubonds out of a 300 win mag at white tail bee my guest but the 300 win mag in my tool shed is used for bean field shooting white tail @300-600 yrds (With 150 grn Game Kings). What if there is a deer at 290 yrds, ranged? I will NOT take a shot, that said I always hunt in pairs for safety sake and my trusty counterpart will have the antithesis of my rifle (short range 308 win at that point). Could I score a hit on the deer @ 600-800 yrds with the Match grade 308 YES but I will not do so because the slug does not have my minimum energy requirement and the 300 win mag with a 150 grn Game King @ 100yrds has exceeded the upper limit of the projo's capability. The art of war is the flexibility of knowing when to fight and when to Egress Gracefully (run with style)!

If you want to find something that shoots decently on the first set of loads, try the weight of bullet that the gun was originally designed for. A little research will provide you with that info. For example, the 30-06 was designed to shoot 165 grain bullets (it will shoot many others well, but the 165 is the ideal bullet). Using a powder that will give the velocity of a common 165 grain bullet in a standard ballistics table (like that in the Shooter's Bible). Working up a set of loads around that data and you'll probably have a decent shooting load right off the bat.



As to the brand & style of the bullet. What your hunting should dictate this choice. The Reloader's Nest forum http://www.reloadersnest.com/index.asp
has a section called "Bullet Review" that I have found helpful.

This is just my 2 cents worth and I'm sure there are a great deal of other ideas on the subject.

As to heavier or lighter bullets per caliber, they all have their merits and that debate has been going on since reloading began and it will continue till after you and I are dead and gone.

Gee, Allen, feeling a little testy? Or did you get your medicine mixed a little strong? If I wanted to shoot a 180, I'd shoot a 30-06. If I wanted to make a little bullet go really, really fast, I'd shoot a 22-250.
I kinda cap my velocity at 3000fps because I think that's about the top end needed for good bullet performance (without those nasty old "bullet failures"), reasonable trajectories, and adequete range to take care of my hunting. That combination has worked for me for a long time. I may be a luddite but why fix what ain't broke?
I don't know how you interjected ecconomics in the post or ended up with a bullet in your coffee but I suggested Core Lokt bullets for the .308 for the simple reason they work. For the performance perameters of the .308, you will not find a better suited bullet than the Core Lokt. If it's your .308, you can shoot any kind of bullet out of it you want but it ain't gonna kill that deer or hog any deader.
The fellow asked how did one select a bullet? I told him how I selected mine. And for what reason. I don't see where you brought too truth and light to the discussion. Just a lot of heat where you made a pointless attack on my reasons with no real suggestions of your own. Why didn't you at least tell him to go down to his friendly, neighborhood bullet store and buy the most expensive bullets he could find and use them. Then, when he sits around the campfire, he can say: "me'n Allen are in the my stuff cost more'n yours does club, neener, neener, neener".

Beeman- Somethin defiantly crawled up his craw!!
To his credit; and your discredit, he did Mention Nosler "parturition" as a get all for him so his post was not totally in your hind end.
Keep it up boys this is gettin fun!

Red- just to add to your post If we add the cartridge’s best weight; (designed) which if you look at a muzzle energy chart there will be two weights that are vastly different but have a similar energy, those and between are your "best" choices, with the twist of the barrel you have the "most efficient" use for that rifle. For instance one 300 win mag has a 1:11 twist it may be used for grisly bears and is best with a 220 Grain Monolithic but an other 300 win mag with a 1:14 twist will stabilize a 150 grn Game King way out there.
So TBEAR99 what are you shooting and what do you want to shoot it at? With one example in front of you with the rational of why you should be able to select the group of candidates without a hitch!

That's true, RR, but it's also one of the first bullets I suggested. My point with the CoreLokt and the .308 was that a premium bullet wasn't actually needed in all applications. Beyond, of course, a confidence builder or an ego stroker.
No, I'm not gonna get into any sort of pissing contest with AD. What I said works for me. Your mileage, and obviously his, may vary.

'm trying to think this question through as I respond, so fair warning; I may change my mind a few posts later!!

How do I choose a bullet for a load?

First I look at MY realities of that moment:

1. What do I intend to use the gun for, and in what circumstances?

2. How much practice will I need with the load I select, to be sure I can put the bullet where it belongs within the ranges at which I will most likely be called on to shoot?

3. What do I "know" about the bullets out there (from both personal and vicarious experience)?

4. What, if anything, do I want to avoid at all costs with that rifle & bullet? Which bullet(s) does that immediately eliminate from consideration?

5. Which bullets can I currently afford (in the numbers that I need now and in the foreseeable future)?

6. Are there any bullets for that cartridge which I just plain don't like (whether logically or emotionally)?

7. Is there a brand, or brands, I have come to trust more than others?

When I have all that info in front of me, either mentally or in writing, I start by eliminating ALL bullets which don't meet my needs/wants criteria.

Then I eliminate all brands I do not have trust in.

Next, I eliminate all remaining bullets beyond my relatively easy financial means...no sense deciding on working up something I can't afford in sufficient numbers for both practice and the actual intended use, as well as "rat-holing".

That leaves me with a number, sometimes still a large number, of bullets which may prove just fine for the use(s) I have in mind.

So then I go to the local gun stores and see which ones they have in stock that I may want to test. If they have the one which seems it MAY be the best all-around based on my previous consideration, I buy just that one, and take it home and develop some test loads.

If that brand/model/weight doesn't work out to provide useful accuracy/velocity, then it's back to the gun store and more trials with some other bullets.

If the local shops don't have my preferred selection, then I will order a single box of each of the top 4-6 bullets on my list from some outfit like Graf's , to spread around the shipping cost and to have untried stuff on hand for possible future rifles or experimental loads.

Eventally, I arrive at something satisfactory(maybe several things). Ammunition-wise I am then ready to go do whatever it was I planned to use the rifle for. If the trip/project works out well, I will lay in a supply of the SAME components for future trips.

Then I will have time to experiment with still other stuff, and still have a good "fall-back" if the other stuff doesn't work out, or if my selected bullet/loading components suddenly disappear from the market.

No easy way to put all that in a nutshell, but I'd say that's basically how I do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
'm trying to think this question through as I respond, so fair warning; I may change my mind a few posts later!! ....

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
I prefer a heavy for calibre bullet. I believe if your bullet has a muzzle velocity over 3000fps, you need a heavier bullet.
Of your examples, I would use a 200gr for the Norma, a 160 for the 7mm and a 165 for the .308. I would use a Partition or Grand Slam for the Norma and 7mm and probably a Core Lokt for the .308. There are a lot of good hunting bullets out there, just don't get caught up in the magic bullet hype. You've still got to stick 'em in the right place.

Interesting post with a lot of meritt!!!!! One could do much worse than follow this advice.

Hey VD, If the Pontifficator says it's rediculous It must be so!?!? Right? roger

Roger.....everyone seems to march to a different drummer.

I'm a "short barrel", "heavy bullet", somewhat "lower speed", and "light is good" type of guy. I far prefer a featherweight .30-06 to a .300 Win mag. I'd rather punch holes in bambi with 180s over 150s as I like exits and extremely fast bullets don't necessarily penetrate better than slower ones but just the same I also like flat tradjectory so I like my bullets to be faster than a .30-30!

If someone's drummer is a Pontifficator, then so be it.....let him post away. I'll continue to post my views as I see them......and they happen to be fairly in line with other experienced hunters here.

There's nothing magic about 3,000'/sec....it's simply a number!!! However the above post was good and I just happen to agree with the sentiment.

Alberta Canuck, I believe in practice, practice, practice. So once I have determined what bullet I think will work best for me in whatever situation, I may buy a sack of the cheap stuff with the same weight and a similar profile and use that for practice over the year. Then I sight in with the stuff I'm going to take hunting before I leave. Its been my experience that rarely does the POI vary much between the two different bullets anyway.
Some folks say there is only a few pennies between the cost of a cheapo bullet and a premium bullet. That's true but if you do shot year around times several rifles those few pennies can mount up to a nice piece of change.

Ok,

Presume that I'm not angry, irritated or eating my cornflakes with urine instead of milk.
I save my real irritation for things more real than a bunch of opinionated jokers on an internet forum.

Short version? Don't confuse prose with real emotion.

Now to the subject at hand

Lets assume for a moment that sticking to Partitions, Accubonds or whatever "premium" bullet you care to choose is more expensive, but in what circumstance will it perform in an inferior way to a CoreLokt?

I mean if Corelokt are the minimum performance standard why not try to improve on them?

(presuming that the unknown rifle (or rifles) in question will actually shoot the corelokts in question, and in this I have two Remingtons built rifles that wouldn't, and yes, I tried them, though admittedly because they were GIVEN to me
by a well meaning but blessedly ignorant friend
(I used them up fireforming cases)

Now imagine for a moment that while you are experienced and KNOW what you are doing and thus KNOW what the bullet is capable of, minimum range to prevent overexpansion, maximum range to prvent failure to expand, trajectory etc...

Under that circumstance as a given....
Why do you recommend to an admitted BEGINNER that might not have that experience a bullet which you have stated YOU have the experience to use, but atleast imply
that not everyone does?

Once you work that question out to a logical, reasonable answer you will understand the tone of my reply.

"premium bullets", partitions in particular, cover most of the various ballistic "sins" we may commit in the persuit of game.

a partition is not going to completely "blow up" if you shoot one in a situation that results in an excessive impact speed.
Probably an accubond won't either, but not have personal in the field experience with them, so I can't say for sure that it won't. I can say it probably won't because I've only seen ONE ballistic tip blow up and I would have been disappointed if it had not done so (Mv2700fps to the neck of a doe at ~35yards, it took her head clean off... obviously she didn't go very far

I don't believe you can say that a corelokt won't blow up at high speed, which is why the recommendation to "slow things down"

a partition is not going to fail to open at any range where a corelokt will open.
And a partition is certainly going to have a BC no worse than a corelokt....

So worst case if you stick to partitions is that you spend about twice (or a little more) on the partitions than what you'd spend on Corelokt's

No, Partitions aren't always necissary, but they NEVER
adversely affect your intended outcome.

All things considered partitions are cheap insurance against adversity and/or perversity.

Why handicap yourself by intentionally choosing something other than the best you can afford?

Do you go out to Sportsman's wharehouse with enough
cash to buy a Leupold, Zeiss or even Swarovski scope then intentionally buy a bottom of the line Tasco, BSA or Bushnell?

You buy or build a custom rifle or "tune" a production rifle then try to make the cheapest ammunition possible?

Do you load those corelokt's in brass you picked up at the local public range?

Now as to call use of a premium bullet as a confidence builder, please refer to the discussion in hunting over accuracy necissary for big game.... where people admit that having a 1/2MOA rifle while not necissary is useful addition to confidence...

what is wrong with confidence from any place you can get it?

Allen, you are absolutely right. And if I were traveling some distance to hunt, you can be sure there would be a premium bullet stuck in the end of the new 1X cases regardless of the calibre I was shooting. But, if I was going up behind the house to shoot a 100# white tail I might be carrying a model 788 rebarreled to .260 with a Weaver 3x scope and reformed range pick up .243 brass with a 140gr Corelokt bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
if I were traveling some distance to hunt, you can be sure there would be a premium bullet stuck in the end of the new 1X cases regardless of the calibre I was shooting. But, if I was going up behind the house to shoot a 100# white tail I might be carrying a model 788 rebarreled to .260 with a Weaver 3x scope and reformed range pick up .243 brass with a 140gr Corelokt bullet.

Another good post.

quote:

Originally posted by TBEAR99:
ok new to reloading so here is my question whith all they makers and different styles of bullits how do you decide which bullit?

If you're cheap like me, you'll get the bullet that's on sale The only trick is matching the bullet to its intended purpose. Your rifle will tell you which one it likes best...