I am having trouble keeping my powder measure accurate with Varget/AR2208. If the powder level drops too much in the hopper, powder weights drop quite a lot. Even from one charge to the next, it is difficult to keep charges the same. My measure is an RCBS. My mates find the same thing with their Lee measure. What do you folks do? It seems like a good powder and the ideal one for my two calibers - 303 Brit 180gr bullets and 303-25 100gr & 85gr bullets. (And 303 cast, 220/245gr).

From the powder measurer, set it on balance scale and trickle the rest of the powder.

I only throw charges for small capacity cases using ball powder.

BTW, I also use the RCBS and depending on the powder, charges change as you decrease the amount of powder in the hopper. that's why I mostly use my balance scale or electronic scale.

I don't use a thrower, I powder scoop, & Trickle finish every round, Dead slow I know, but very very relaxing, Just got hold of some Ramshot Magnum, very impressed with it's handling & lack of static problems.

I've had good luck with using a large funnel to create a baffle. It sits on the top of my RCBS measure and sticks about 1/4 of the way down in the powder tube. As each powder drop removes powder from the tube the funnel keeps the measure at a constant level. Also with Varget if you feel the rotor cut a powder grain you might as well just return the dump to the hopper as it will be almost a grain off in some cases.
If I'm loading a bunch of rounds I'll drop four directly into cases and then weigh the fifth before dumping it in the case as a check as to how consistant the powder measure is. If I'm loading for accuracy I'll dump each one move the pan to the scale and then trickle the last two or three tenths of a grain .
Varget is great stuff, I use it for almost all of my rifle calibers from .223 to .458Lott.

Varget dispenses accurately through through my RCBS Powder Master. I have been very happy with it except w/ stuff like W296 which gets caught up in the bushings and binds up the mechanism. I called Pact about that a couple years ago and the answer I got was on par with the guy who went to the doctor complaining that every time he moved his arm "like this" it hurt and the doctor said "well just don't do that" Except for some hand gun loads, I usually stay away from volumetric metering, in favor of weighing all charges for consistency.

Check out this setup.
It works good on AR2208.

http://www.quick-measure.com/index.htm

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
What do you folks do?

I set my RCBS Uniflow (you didn't specify which RCBS product you use) to throw a few tenths light, then trickle up to the exact amount.

quote:

If the powder level drops too much in the hopper, powder weights drop quite a lot. Even from one charge to the next, it is difficult to keep charges the same. My measure is an RCBS. My mates find the same thing with their Lee measure. What do you folks do?

What you are finding is the facts of life when measring by volume and seeking consistant weight. Ain't gonna happen with any precision,

Keeping the hopper level at the same, or near the same, helps. Having a baffle plate in the bottom of the hopper also helps. But, bottom line, if you want precision charges you will have to drop them a little low and trickle up on the scale as described above.

Fortunately for us, a properly chosen powder charge is NOT critical within .1 gr.! More often the "best" charge will have a tolerance window maybe .3 gr wide, or even more for larger cartridges!

I like to find the full range of charges that will shoot well and then load in the middle of that range. The load won't be so quirky and a lot of otherwise unexplainable flyers will disappear.

I have tested accuracy and chronoed trickled Varget and straight from the powder measure. The differences are negligible. Try it yourself. Load 10 or 20 is even better of rounds trickled to the .1 gn and load the same amount straight from the measure. The only thing that you should do is start each run with a cold clean barrel and then shoot for groups over a chrony. Sometimes the untrickled loads beat the trickled loads. Canister grade powders are not that precise to start with.

ETA: Proper consistant technique goes a long way towards not needing to trickle. I slam the RCBS Uniflow measure up and down with a unifrom cadence. Don't let the hopper get too low and by all means use the optional baffle.

You may need a baffle. My powder measure has one and I use it to charge my 6.5x47 cases with varget. That load shoots well under MOA though I must admit I don't weigh the charges so they may not be perfect.

quote:

I've had good luck with using a large funnel to create a baffle.

That's clever, Rick R! I have noted that a powder measure with a funnel leading to the measuring chamber has good consistancy for that very reason but couldn't figure out how to modify my RCBS. Thanks for the idea!

Thanks for the link Bob from down under. That looks good!

quote:

Fortunately for us, a properly chosen powder charge is NOT critical within .1 gr.! More often the "best" charge will have a tolerance window maybe .3 gr wide, or even more for larger cartridges!

That's good advice, Jim C. <>< , thanks! I will try fitting a baffle and hopefully soon, I will be able to drag myself away from the field and to the range for some proper testing!

quote:

Originally posted by Bob from down under:
Check out this setup.
It works good on AR2208.

http://www.quick-measure.com/index.htm

Not just AR2208 but any extruded powder. H4831, IMR4350, all flow like W414 from mine...

With Lyman #55 powder thrower one dosn't have that problem. Using the knocker correctly a couple times settles the powder and makes for very consistant throws.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Using the knocker correctly a couple times settles the powder and makes for very consistant throws.

Well now, I am about to try fitting a vibrator to my measure and see what pappens. Another test will be a funnel or baffle.

Oh yes, it's a Uniflow. (It always seemed pretty consitant with flake pistol powders and fine grained extruded powders. It was pretty good with MR200 which is a bit finer than Varget/AR2208. So much so that I gave up weighing other than to check every so many throws and there just was no change).

I don't know what to say ... !
I went to 'prove' the inconsitancy of my measure and after four throws all was good so I half emptied the hopper and did some more throws and all was good! So then i tried 'banging' the thing then very gently operating it and still not variation! So I really emptied it - right down to the tapered body and then only did I get an increase in weight! But with normal operation, it stayed on target! What the hell is going on? Anyway, I attached the vibrator (you folks won't believe the places one has to go to get a vibrator!) Well, that reduced the thrown amount to the same as when full. I tested it with very slow throws and with bumping it and now difference. I then refilled the hopper and still no difference!

(Just kidding about where I got the vibrator - it is just a motor from an old battery record player!)

I have been using this method (vibrator) for years on a '60s vintage Herter's measure. Even with a home made extension on the measuring tube, allowing single throws of 4350 of 100grs + the repeatability is amazing. As with any set up a consistent routine of lever movement and timing between throws ensures good results.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
With Lyman #55 powder thrower one dosn't have that problem. Using the knocker correctly a couple times settles the powder and makes for very consistant throws.

Larry Gibson

Been using my #55 for 40 yrs. Tried lots of others and always come back to that one.

quote:

I set my RCBS Uniflow (you didn't specify which RCBS product you use) to throw a few tenths light, then trickle up to the exact amount

Echo the thumbs up by ramrod340 above. I was measuring charges for a 308 Winchester last night using a 20 year old Uniflow measure - set a couple of tenths light, throw the charge, and trickle it in. The measure is usually spot on, but one out of twenty will be off by 3 or 4 tenths.

I, too, found my Uniflow to be inconsistent, but when I added a powder baffle it improved a great deal, then I added the micrometer adjustment screw and it performs just as well as my Redding 3BR measure. I only use the Redding for my target rifles because it is so accurate and repeatable.
A baffle placed at the bottom of the hopper works best.

Cheers.

I have joined the scoop and trickle club. My own improvement is a power trickler with a shut off feature. Very fast and very accurate. I bought a Target Master from the UK. Now there is the Dandy Products Omega Powder Trickler.

Warning! Once you try it you will not go back!

Go over to one of the benchrest forums. They mostly use Harrells. Like 33 clicks. Don't weigh nothin'.
Thousand yard shooters claim they can tell the difference in ONE log, (kernel) of 4350. I call BS on that.....
I mostly choose a powder that runs through the old Lyman smoothly...
My trickler is covered with cobwebs...
The deer, and coyotes still tip over at the shot. Grant.

The little BR guys do throw powder. Often ball powder, and ball powder meters consistently. I had a Harrell for years. Long grain powder was +/- .2 to .3. Okay for short range, say 300 yds and under.

When I shot 1K BR I weighed every charge on a RCBS 10-10. In 1000 yd BR, 20 fps extreme spread would result in vertical stringing of about 2.5." When you needed to shoot 5" or better groups to win, 2.5" was too much. My best load had an ES of 11 fps. I shot five screamer groups one year with it--at that time, a screamer was 5 shots into 4" or less at 1000 yds. I set two club agg records, frequently shot small group of the match and won several matches. Though I tried to weigh every load exactly, I don't think the 10-10 is better than +/- .05, perhaps even +/- .1. Let's say all my loads were withing a tenth of a grain. I competed against a couple guys who had high end triple beam scientific scales. Those guys loads were probably inside half a tenth or better in consistency. I beat those guys more often than they beat me. So does one kernel of H4350 make a difference? I doubt it. A one tenth variation might be an issue, and certainly two tenths would--at least at 1000 yds.

For a while I used a Quick Measure. It seemed to work better than the Harrell, but no measure likes long grain powder.

Nowadays I use an RCBS Chargemaster for my hunting rifles, including my LR hunting rifle. It frequently meters .1 to .2 tenths over. I simply pick up a pinch of powder and drop it back in the hopper. I usually get it perfect in one try. Today, I shot my new 338 Edge for the first time, and my extreme spreads with the four loads I tested were 15, 8, 21, and 11. That's about as good as it gets. If I can get that 8 fps load to repeat, I'm there.