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| One of Us |
My first attempt at annealing brass! Using the torch/water bucket set-up, I am holding the neck to the flame until I see the blue/purple color change start to go down to the shoulder, then I stop and dip in the water bucket. When cool, my brass has the rainbow (silverish-blue and purple ring about 15-25% down from the shoulder towards the base. Even the annealed portion retains a shine and there are no burn marks. A few times my necks took on a slight redish color from heat, but at no time did I let it get anywhere near an orange color. I have looked at pics and mine look OK but it's hard to tell if I am doing it OK. I know that I am not under-annealing but hoping I didn't over do it. After the annealing was done, I FL-Sized the cased and none of the cases deformed or smusched down. Whatdaya think?? | ||
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I suggest that you read up on annealing, first of all it should be red and the temp liquid should melt to give you the correct temp..your also need a means to slow spin the case. Your description is scary. Annealing can be very dangerous if done improperly. You will know if you do it wrong, the results can injure you. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Thanks for the reply. Forgot to add that I am spinning the case slowly in a drill with a socket covering the case except for the neck shoulder. I read and watched lots of videos too. What is scaring you about what I'm doing?? The videos seem to have the same colors as my cases..... I just want to make sure. What do you think?? | |||
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Just the neck and a slight RED. You can't really over-anneal the neck, but you CAN anneal lower parts of the case that will create an unsafe condition. The tempilaq helps you know when you've got to that point. The spinning is a key element. You're trying to reach the right balance of time, Temp and heat distribution. As Ray said, do your homework, and stay safe! Doug Wilhelmi NRA Life Member | |||
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So a bit below the shoulder I have a blueish/silverish purple ring.... Does this sound right? | |||
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As long as you aren't softening the base (the lower 2/3rds of the case let's say), you are fine. Some guys hold the head in their fingers; that way it is impossible to over heat it. You don't need to use tempilaq to see when it is red. | |||
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So when you say "red" do you mean the neck just starting to glow red?? Also the colored ring is definitely in the upper 2/3 of the cases. So the big danger is heating the lower 2/3 of the case...your not worried about over annealing the neck?? Correct?? | |||
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I turn off almost all of the lights in my shop so I can read color better I do 3 at a time in a drill and my homemade jig    ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Yes, when the entire neck shows red; drop it. Yes, the danger is heating the lower 3/4 inch; but to be safe, stay well above that; again, if you just heat the neck red and immediately drop it in water, you will be fine. The above fixture assures that, but I just twirl it in my fingers. Look at military brass; that shows where the heat is; only on the neck and shoulder. They do not polish the discoloration off US military brass, for some reason. I rarely anneal brass anyway. Why are you annealing? Are you getting cracked necks? | |||
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I loaded the cases a bunch of times so figured that I should. Even though I could see color change in the neck/shoulder and grow towards the neck, the neck barely turned/glowed red and NEVER orange. I wish that I could figure out how to post pics of my job! | |||
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Here is the amount of annealing I usually do on my 404J cases. You may want a little more on the shoulder area but the colour should not come down the case wall. Best to anneal in low light, not darkness, and tip the cases into water when you see a colour change just before red, you should not see red although if you do it is not the end of the world, depending on your sizing die too much annealing may soften the neck enough not to give a good tension on the bullet. If this happens just run the case in and out of the sizing die a few times and the neck will harden up. It won't shorten the case life as the first time in the die sizes the case and consecutive insertions in the die do nothing to the case other than work the neck.  | |||
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Thanks for your effort! The color on my cases is identical to those in your picture but it is 1/4-1/3 down on the case wall. | |||
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Won't do any harm but try and restrict the annealing process next time to just the neck and the shoulder. Depending on the cases some only start to split just on the neck as do the RWS cases in my photo if they are not annealed often enough and get a lot of loading whereas my old Kynoch cases need annealing on the neck and all of the shoulder as they show a propensity to split in both these areas when first fired as factory ammo. If they don't split on first firing they get a good annealing to where the rainbow colour shows on the case walls at the junction of the shoulder. | |||
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Buy this and stop guessing: Hornady Annealing system It works very well Stay safe "Diligentia - Vis - Celeritas" NRA Benefactor Member Member DRSS | |||
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I usually have lost brass before it needs annealing so I don't worry about it. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I'm with Paul Reed. The Hornady kit has everything you need. I only put Tempilaque on one or two cases and time how long it takes to anneal it. Then I just anneal the rest of the cases based on the amount of time it took to anneal the first one(s). I think I annealed each case for 9 seconds if I remember correctly the last time I did it. I think time is a more accurate way of doing it than judging by color. With Tempilaque you know your close to the proper temperature. One man's red is another man's light red is another man's dark red is another man's... Although, honestly, as long as you don't soften the case head or body you should be fine. Just curious, why are you resizing the cases after annealing? | |||
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Yeah, that is what I wanted to say; I don't anneal until I start getting cracked necks, after which it is too late and I just get new brass. Annealing after "a few re-loads", to me, is not needed. I used to do it some, but not for 3 decades. | |||
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Just curious, why are you resizing the cases after annealing?[/QUOTE] From what I learned the case needs to be resized after annealing | |||
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I'm one of the low tech finger rollers. I hold the case about a third to half way from the base and roll the case between my index finger and thumb, focusing the flame on the juncture between the shoulder and neck. When it's too hot to hang onto I drop it in a pan of water. Not very scientific but it's been working well for me. "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson | |||
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One indication of hard brass is squeaks or squealing on the upstroke as the button passes through the neck Aneal before re-size ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I use a 12mm socket on a screwdriver extension in an old electric screwdriver. About 6 seconds on 260 and 7-8 on 30-06 and 35 Whelen with the tip of the flame hitting the upper neck Shoulder junction with the flame angle towards the mouth of the neck, dropped in water to cool, renders cases that look like the photo of Eagle27's 404J case. Easy, fun and stops cracked necks. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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WTF?? I just took my annealed brass out of the sonic cleaner and guess what....all but a trace of the annealing colors are gone! What is the cause of this?? By the way....I think that my annealing adventures are over. When I start to see the necks crack they are going in the garbage. | |||
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All new cases are annealed but many are polished after this process so the annealing colours are not visible. Obviously the colouring is only on the brass surface. Norma manufactured Parker Hale branded .404J factory ammo showed the annealing colours on the cases whereas I have never seen this on Norma brass used in their own branded ammo. Don't know why the polishing step was left out when Norma did the run of ammo for Parker Hale. I too would not bother annealing common brass but for hard to obtain or expensive brass such as that for the Nitro big bores one wouldn't want to be ditching good brass just for the want of a simple process to restore the softness of the cartridge case neck and shoulder area and often get an almost unlimited life out of due to the low operating pressure of most of these big cases. | |||
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Thanks Eagle. I didn't polish them....I only used a sonic cleaner. | |||
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They probably rattled together in the ultra sonic and burnished the patina off. | |||
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Could be but I only had 50 in there. I didn't clean bf anealing....wonder if that had something to do with it | |||
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My use of the word 'polish' was in the broad sense. I don't know how the various manufacturers polish, burnish or clean their cases but I do know that they do all anneal their brass after the drawing process, some 'cleaning' to get rid of the colour while others leave the annealing colour on the brass. Either way all the brass is annealed and the colours are immaterial to the outcome. For us reloaders who do anneal we use the end result colour to see how much of the case we have annealed. On ocassion I clean my 404 brass especially so I can see it easier to pick up and just use a metal polish which removes the annealing colours instantly. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Reloading Over Annealed Brass....a follow-up
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