Since this should be a great year to concentrate on the '06 and all it's various loadings, I was thinking about the grouse load. I see a 100 or 110 grain bulet with just enough Unique or blue dot to shoot barely sub-sonic. Any experiences in this area to share?

Before I started casting, my standard load for my 30-06 was a 125 grain speer TNT over a charge of Unique. I don't remember how much I used without looking it up. It was very accurate and fairly quiet. It was a good medium range coyote load, and it worked well for hunting in farmland where you didn't want to make a lot of noise. But this was probably more powerful than what you are talking about.

Funny you should mention that....

Looking at 110 grain load? at say 1000 fps?

Well, I have tested and chronographed:

Blue Dot:

7 grains: 907 fps & (110 grain SP)
10 grains: 1183 fps ( 150 grain SP)
11 grains: 1305 fps ( 150 grain SP)

For Unique:

I have some actually loaded up and just waiting for a combo on time to do it, when the wife doesn't have something lined up for me to do and it is not raining cats and dogs....

Drop me a PM, and I will forward my results to you as soon as I can get them chronographed...

if you can't wait tho, my guestimation in working with reduced loads, I'd start at about 7 grains of Unique and see what you get....

good luck,
cheers
seafire

Seafire, thanks for the starter. I would love to see how the Unique works as well, but there is no rush as I am seperated from my hardware till late April. Sort of stranded by the season. My thoughts are to use the '06 as my sole hunting arm here in 2006, so I want to enjoy the cartridge to the maximum. Thanks again.

I can't locate my chrono data on the load, but several years ago at suggestion of a Sierra tech, tried Unique behind a 168 gr. matchking. Got one hole 100 yd groups prone w/iron sights using 17.5 gr. Unique Fed 210 BR primers in GI brass.

A very old Lyman book shows 18.4 gr as max behind 173 gr. bullet yielding 1840 fps and starting load of 13.0 gr. @ 1430 fps.

The 17.5 shot great, but really drifted in a cross wind!

Regards,
hm

PS:
Set aside the brass you use for this (reduced)load as the firing pin (in my mod 70 tgt rifle) would drive the brass forward in the chamber and the shoulder would eventually be set back resulting in excessive headspace. It was not a problem w/the reduced loads, but I would not want to use standard load in those cases. IIRC, did get smoked necks using this load, too.

hi
i have a pack of 500 170 gr meister hard cast bullets and want to load them for deer seoze games. what would be the gest load in 3006?
regards
yes

.308 Sako, here are some reduced .30-06 loads I got from the 9th Ed.of Handloaders Digest.

#0 Buck - 5.0 gr Bullseye @ 1200fps

100 gr LWC - 5.0 gr Bullseye @ 1000fps

154 gr Lead - 8.0 gr Bullseye @ 1250fps

154 gr Lead - 8.0 gr Unique @ 1150fps

150 gr. Jacketed - 12.0 gr Unique @ 1350fps *

*.30-30 flatnosed or roundnosed work better than spitzers.

I don't load for .30-06 but I've done quite a bit of work with reduced (gallery type) loads in .308 Win.

I like the 165gr. Lead RNFP sized to .310". These are plain based (not gas checked) bullets that are normally used in the .30-30 for 'Cowboy' action shooting.

I use 8.5 - 9.5 gr. of Unique in the .308 Win. with this bullet. I would increase that load to about 10.5 gr for use in the .30-06 and work DOWN in small increments until you get the velocity you want.

A standard load for me in 30-06 is 16.0 gr Unique with 110 gr bullets. I use carbine 110 gr RN for plinking load. Guesstimate around 2000fps.

Anyone with quickload care to verify that?

Once you get down around 1000fps you best use cast lead or you'll have you'll have dickens of a time getting a stuck bullet out of the bore.

quote:

Originally posted by unique:
A standard load for me in 30-06 is 16.0 gr Unique with 110 gr bullets. I use carbine 110 gr RN for plinking load. Guesstimate around 2000fps.

Unique, a 110 gr. Hornady RNSP is listed as delivering 1,500 fps with 10.0 grs. of Unique in the .30-06 (American Rifleman 10-87). I would guess your 16.0 grain load of Unique would be pretty close to your estimated 2,000 fps.

BTW, the 10.0 gr. load of Unique behind the 110 Hornady SP is supposed to be pretty accurate. But I prefer lead bullets for my 'gallery loads'. For the reason you pointed out......

quote:

Once you get down around 1000fps you best use cast lead or you'll have you'll have dickens of a time getting a stuck bullet out of the bore.

I have ran loads down to 5 and 7 grains of Unique in the 30/06.... I have to get around to chronographing some...

of course we all take our own chances but at even 800 fps or so, as long as the bullet is not oversized for the bore.. I don't see a bullet getting stuck...

a lot of pistol loads are way below 1000 fps....even if in a shorter barrel...

There are Unique loads for the 30-06 in "Lyman #39" 1953, like 19.3 gr for 180 gr case with gas check.

Wimpy load work better with cast bullets.

I have made light loads for the 30-06 with pistol powder for grouse. One probem is change in zero for the scoope. So the grouse round goes in a bag with instructions, like "Aim 6" high and to the right at 75 feet."

Unique is an excellent powder for super wimpy loads in big cases, it is the only powder I have found that delivers the accuracy.

The reason I am buying all this Blue Dot [Seafire got me started] is that it burns so clean at higher pressure.

You will probably find that 4 gr Unique and 72 ~ 120 gr cast bullet will easily do the grouse killing you want, and have drop that can be managed.

Shoot some holes in wood, and you will see it does not take much Unique to go through a grouse, the extra powder will be to tame the rainbow trajectory.

quote:

a lot of pistol loads are way below 1000 fps....even if in a shorter barrel...

Exactly .... pistol bullets go out of shorter barrels with faster burning powders.

Think pressure curve! The .22LR is a good example. 24" barrels actually produce lower velocities than 18" barrels. Peak pressure is passed and the bullet is losing velocity due to friction.

Same thing (but more extreme) occurs when using fast pistol powder in a rifle for reduced loads.

I have a similar thread: "how light can it be" and after reading some of the posts here I have a couple of questions:
1. With these light loads, I have heard and read you need "fillers," is that true?
2.hm1996 you state "set this brass aside," at which point can you use this brass for full loads?
The reason I am asking is I want to get FL sized virgin brass to fit my chamber then neck size after that.

Thanks,
Smedley

For the 308 Win, I use the 100 grain Hornady short jacket, 10 grns Unique, CCI 250 primer. Same POI at 50 yards. After that its like throwing rocks.

The load is perfect for bonking grouse on the head.

My young kids really shoot the heck out this reduce load and get good form practice.

DaMan,
I was asking for something that would build up enough pressure to achieve this without punishing my shoulder. (300WM)
I know this isn't "Fire-Forming" in the true sence of fire-forming. Just wanted to save powder and shoulder and was asking for a little help in doing this.
I have done a lot of reloading and have just started seeing articles and threads about "reduced loads" and thought if I could cut down on powder, especially on large cases, and cut down on the punishment, on my now AGING shoulder, I would give it a try.
This is not the only "Belted Magnum" I own and load for so, if I can get some idea of what I can play around with, I am going to save as much money and body as I can.

Thanks,
Smedley

Gentlemen, thank you all for the input and historical loadings. I am sure this is going to work out well, and have some fun along the way.

quote:

Damn, you are an eager learner, SeaFaerie!

Actually Da Man, I was doing a lot of this stuff long before you wondered out of the INFO Crater/Political Forum.....

I don't think I am venturing too far out on a limb when I say, outside of the political forum, on AR I actually have 'some respect' for the work I have done and shared with Reduce Load Developments.....

I am sure it will surprise you, that people actually look toward me for some of the ideas that I share on that subject.... IN fact, I am not called "SeaFaerie' by these folks...What I post I have developed and tried at the range...NOT utilized Google....

dare I say, You are in "My Neighborhood" in this arena there DaMan....

But I am glad to see you out of the political forum and being one of the boys, instead of just the chef always stirring the pot, like in the Info Crater....

Welcome to the 'working man's' side of town....

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by smedley:

1. With these light loads, I have heard and read you need "fillers," is that true?
2.hm1996 you state "set this brass aside," at which point can you use this brass for full loads?
The reason I am asking is I want to get FL sized virgin brass to fit my chamber then neck size after that.

Thanks,
Smedley

Didn't find fillers necessary w/Unique in th '06. I doubt you would experience excessive shoulder setback in a belted case as they would not be driven forward into the chamber by firing pin which is what causes shoulder setback.

I would use brass that has been fired several times for reduced loads and keep it separate, even w/belted cases. You will get a bit of gas blowby (blackened necks) and Unique burns pretty dirty, but is super accurate (on calm days).

Agree w/the "neck sizing" of once fired cases in the belted magnums. I prefer to use the shoulder to headspace the belted cases. Brass lasts much longer if die is set up to barely move shoulder back a couple of thousandths.

Regards,
hm

Seafire it looks like DaMan can't leave one forum without bringing the other with.
I posted a legitament question and you can see the response!!

Smedley

PS Thanks hm1996.

Aww DaMan is alright....Smedley....

He is trying to be one of the boys...

I don't know if his knowledge is from Googling or real world experience...but it has been decent advise so far....

Maybe DaMan is still grinding an axe, as he and I have had some exchanges that I know has gotten to him... although he loves to exist in anonymity about his personal life....

But we all are fellow shooters, .... and that is what this forum is all about.. not politics...

I welcome him and his input...even if he wants to call me SeaFaerie in here also...I don't think I have to work for respect out side of the Political forum with too many guys...My opinions and input seem to be respected based on the number of PMS and emails I have received off line asking for some of my load data, or my input to load questions that some have had.. including the occasional phone calls....

at least my name is not held in vain some spots on here....

And who cares if DaMan is a Michael Moore, or Ward Churchhill fan? I don't! As long as he is a fellow shooter.. that is good enough for me...

cheers
seafire

IT'S ALL GOOD!!!!!!!!!


Smedley

So if I'm to go out today and buy some powder and bullets just for 30-06 reduced loads what should I look for. I love plinking loads and because my -06 pretty much only will see range use from now 'till Oct. might just as well shoot one fun load.

I get it.
Seafire and Da Man are Conservative and Liberal debaters repectively from the political forum, but here they are just talking about 30-06 light loads.
They are on the same side for once.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp...1043/m/720100414/p/1

All this talk about light loads took me back to some light loads I messed around with about two years ago. I was using a public range then and often had guys wandering over to see what I am up to with the chronograph. It was great fun to break out the '06, start off with a couple of these and watch their expressions when they read the numbers. 46gr Aluminum bullet with a hollow base and drive bands.

quote:

Originally posted by NBHunter:
So if I'm to go out today and buy some powder and bullets just for 30-06 reduced loads what should I look for. I love plinking loads and because my -06 pretty much only will see range use from now 'till Oct. might just as well shoot one fun load.

SR 4759, or Blue Dot, or IMR 4227, Or Unique...or RL 7, Or IMR 4198 or Alliant's 2400 .... whichever is available.. we can set ya up with load data....

cheers
seafire

quote:

Originally posted by NBHunter:
So if I'm to go out today and buy some powder and bullets just for 30-06 reduced loads what should I look for. I love plinking loads and because my -06 pretty much only will see range use from now 'till Oct. might just as well shoot one fun load.

There are basically three routes you can choose and it comes down to the range you want to do your plinking.

At 25 yards, even 0 Buck can be used to get groups of about 1". But beyond 25yds, accuracy goes out the window.

The next step up are intermediate range plinkers (50yds) using lead bullets in the 100-110 gr. range. Bullets like those designed for the .32-20 and the .32 H&R Mag are good candidates. These are usually sized to .312" (ideal for those using them in 7.62X39, 7.62X54R, or .303 Brit). Though a bit oversized for the .30-06 (and others with the .308" bore diameter). However, they will work without sizing for the .308" bore. They are just not.... the best.

The M1919 'Guard' cartridges used a 110 gr. bullet sized to .310". The .312" pistol bullets can be run through an inexpensive Lee sizing die if .310" bullets are desired.

Next step up are the non-gas checked lead bullets designed for the .30-30. This is perhaps the easiest route to go and they deliver pretty good accuracy up to 100 yds.

I like the 165gr. LRNFP. You can get these sized for .309" or .310" diameters. I prefer the .310" for my .308s and .30-30s.

You'll need a Lyman M expander die (30L - for $16) because your normal sizing die won't expand the neck of the cartridge enough to seat the slightly larger lead bullet without 'shaving it'.

These loads are a hoot! M1919 'Guard' gallery load

All these 30-06 loads were 110 gr. bullets of varying manufacture.IMI Brass, And *****7.2gr. Of Blue Dot***** CCI Mag Primers.(50yds.)

Poly Tip bullet, oal=3.280" , 645 to 996 fps. 3", 5 shot group.

Spire point bullet, oal= 3.180", 896 to 988 fps. 5 shot 2" group.

RNSP., oal= 2.980", 843 to 950 fps. 5 shot
1 1/2" group.

FMJ RN REM.oal= 3.015". 880 to 895 fps. 5 shot 2' group.

FMJ RN Bulk not REM.oal= 3.02" 586 to 1024 fps. 7shot 2" group.

Comments in general: most were sooty, Never lost sight of point of aim. When shot into bank at 130 yards could see bullet hit through scope. It seemed forever from the time you heard the POP and then saw the bullet hit. Recoil was nil. I'm not at all sure what usefull information this data gives. Personally this appears to be just a poor combination of cartridge and components. But than one man's sewage can be another man's mustard plaster.

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..

quote:

FMJ RN Bulk not REM.oal= 3.02" 586 to 1024 fps. 7shot 2" group.

586-1024 fps velocity spread!

Bartsche have you tried faster burning powders (like Unique or faster burning rate)?

quote:

Originally posted by DaMan:

quote:

FMJ RN Bulk not REM.oal= 3.02" 586 to 1024 fps. 7shot 2" group.

586-1024 fps velocity spread!

Bartsche have you tried faster burning powders (like Unique or faster burning rate)?

NO and I don't believe I will. Just don' t see the need I guess and am not that curious. roger