i want to fireform .257 brass. i know theres diff. ways of doing it. i have a question,i have a lot of wc-860. what do you think about using wc-860 and a wax plug.??? always looking for answers , thanks to you all...

WC860 is really slow burning one might want to use something a bit faster.

I belive its a 50 bmg powder.

yes it is and low pressure . dont need to move angle much.

One thing I found fire forming .257 AI brass was if I annealed the new brass first it formed easier. I don't remember what powder I used but it was a faster one and I did use cheap bullets.

i don't think the wax plug with 860 would provide enough pressure for fireforming. remember that fireforming wants to have high pressure loads so that the shoulder forms true.

Are you still looking to form 257 from 6mm? What do you plan to use for headspace?

Even though you are needing to only move the shoulder a little 860 I would believe to be way to slow to attemp with powder only. Normally you are looking at a powder in the Bullseye range and loading in the 15-20% case capacity. Even then you won't get a sharp corner.

QL says a full case of 860 and a 75gr bullet only generate 22,650psi. You are going to need twice that minimum. Matter of fact using the minimum QL allows of a 1 gr bullet pressure drops to 8800psi.

If you don't want to form a false shoulder then get a long 257 bullet and seat into the lands and you a med load of a medium fast powder and go shooting. If you can reach the lands with the bullet then turn it around and load the bullet backwards with a compressed fit into the lands.

If you form a false shoulder just load the brass like you would normally I bet your loads would be plenty accurate.

quote:

Originally posted by bengal:
i want to fireform .257 brass. i know theres diff. ways of doing it. i have a question,i have a lot of wc-860. what do you think about using wc-860 and a wax plug.??? always looking for answers , thanks to you all...

I am not sure this powder would work even with a bullet. Getting the forums approval in no way means anything with such a slow powder is likely to work well.
Bear in mind fire forming without a bullet is not a "loading manual" sanctioned process. It is a make do process used by hand loaders trying to be smart and save a few bucks.

If you have a die capable of squeezing the diameter of the 6mm cases smaller in diameter you might be able to skip the entire fire forming goat roping. Squeezing the shoulder from the side will bulge it forward. It would take about 5 minutes to find out if it works.

I suppose I could try it for you since I have enough dies and gauges.

If your 6mm brass is really nice and all of one lot you might be able to trade some or all of it off to someone with .257 brass...like me.

As with any experimental process if you decide to go forward with fire forming try a few cases.
The check the shoulders and see if you want to chance a full powdered load.

I just tried to squeeze the 6mm case diameter down with a .250 Savage die and the shoulder only moved up .005 until it hit the shoulder in the .250 die.
Thinking about trying another die later.

Ok next die
The .303 British has almost exactly the same taper as the 6mm. I pushed a 6mm case that had been previously FL sized into an RCBS FL die. At about .500 from the case head the shoulder moved forward .015. At .015 shoulder the case was a good fit in both a Wilson and Forster 7X57 case gage which measures to the shoulder. Except for the neck all dims are the same as a .257 Roberts.

At .350 from the case head the shoulder had moved .020.

If you have a .303 die you might experiment with squeezing the body of a 6mm case down. Stop sizing about .600 from the case head and see if it still will chamber in your rifle.

This method leaves a radius step in the case body that will shoot out. If your 6mm cases are old and have been fired multiple time I would skip this process.

Proceed at your own risk.

The 860 would definitely not be good for fire forming without a bullet. Now after you get those cases formed that powder may work as it doesn't do bad in smaller bore cartridges with lots of capacity. Use a mag primer.

Some of the die manufacturers use a long tapered nose on the expander shaft that would get you closer to the 25 caliber neck. What brand are you using?

I tried loadig 860 into 270, 06 ,338wm, 338/06 and several others.

IMHO its a waste of time in those casings a case full of powder and very low vel.

860 is what i use in my 50 - 230 grains at a time

quote:

I tried loadig 860 into 270, 06 ,338wm, 338/06 and several others

Only thig I owned that ever came close was my STW. Long barrel and heavy compressed loads. Even then other powders worked better. Then again I don't own a 50.

I have 2 or 3 8lb kegs of it. I picked up in adeal

The only powder's I've used for bulletless fireforming are Unique and W-231.

quote:

Originally posted by MuskegMan:
The only powder's I've used for bulletless fireforming are Unique and W-231.

+1
I use modest amounts of fast powder.
You need a sharp impulse from the pressure rise to properly fireform a case.
Also I don't use any tissue,cream of wheat or ??.
Just keep the muzzle elevated enough to not spill powder,chamber the case, close the bolt, pull trigger, repeat.

muck

light dosage of 700X +/or cream of wheat cereal.Works well on the A.I. as well as the Gibbs.